Unacceptable aggression on CUK

[Denny]

While people can be abrupt (ok, possibly rude... ) they are not vicious; newbies just need to show that they've thought around the subject and not jump in expecting to be spoon-fed.

Well something must be wrong with the responses when enquirers hit back with complaints about why the tone was so aggressive. It's happened a few times and that's why I put up this thread.

[Denny]

btw, when I joined I remember things being quite aggressive to newbies asking daft questions, and I thought this was quite good in encouraging people (including me) to get themselves better informed.

Wouldn't you have been just as well informed if the tone had been friendlier? I don't see the connection.

[Denny]

Teachers pet at school?

Would you like an apple.

[cojak]

Well something must be wrong with the responses when enquirers hit back with complaints about why the tone was so aggressive. It's happened a few times and that's why I put up this thread.

I still point back to Area-51's thread who posted here for the first time recently and was not subject to 'abuse'.

If people ask thoughtless questions they may well receive thoughtless answers...

[malvolio]

I agree with Denny's sentiments to a degree, but newcomers have to be made aware that they are expected to think for themselves, and tolerate dismissive attitudes from people who are frequently less qualified than they are, if they are to succeed. That's the underlying reason - you may as well practice here when the worst that can happen is you'll get shouted at. I have seen boards where newbies have been given deliberately wrong advice - if anyone tried that here I guess they'd be jumped on very quickly.

And there have been occasions where someone has come on with the Mk1 dumbass question, got slated for it and gone off and done what they were told they should have done in the first place. At least one of them still posts on occasion. So clearly some take the lesson on board and others don't.

[PAH]

In today's hardening climate we should be acting more responsibly and encouraging them to stay in permiedom. Better for us all in the end!

Encouraging a flood of contractors can only have a negative affect on rates and may also deminish our reputation of being 'the elite'. I propose we set up a contractor's union where there are stringent tests for those wanting to join. Of course those who've been members of this forum for years should automatically gain entry, it's only fair.

As for being too aggressive, all I can say is: FAQ off!?

[SueEllen]

If people ask thoughtless questions they may well receive thoughtless answers...

The questions aren't thoughtless they are just repetitive due to some people's inability and laziness in using the search facility provided by this forum.

I find it amazing that technically educated people, whether formally eductated or self-taught, have an inability to use the search facilities provided by this forum or google.

One poster (can't remember who) actually admitted in their post when they asked a question, that they had found the information referred in an answer to but hadn't been bothered to read it.

[dude69]

Wouldn't you have been just as well informed if the tone had been friendlier? I don't see the connection.

No, I would probably would have asked loads of inane questions, getting answers which would not necessarily have been accurate (in fact the answers I got to the first question I asked were wrong and cost me money).

Instead I actually spent the time to get to a basic level of informedness, which let's face it should not beyond the wit of an IT Contractor.

[Denny]

I agree with Denny's sentiments to a degree, but newcomers have to be made aware that they are expected to think for themselves, and tolerate dismissive attitudes from people who are frequently less qualified than they are, if they are to succeed. That's the underlying reason - you may as well practice here when the worst that can happen is you'll get shouted at. I have seen boards where newbies have been given deliberately wrong advice - if anyone tried that here I guess they'd be jumped on very quickly.

But you can get people to think for themselves without having to resort to abuse. Also, on your other point, two wrongs don't make a right.

There's a world of difference between saying.....for example...

Q. Are the rates put up on jobboard adverts the fees I would get or do they include the 'agency' mark up?

My answer would be something like this:

Yes, the rates are what you would get not what the EB would get (the correct term for 'agency'). There is other information about dealing with EBs on Contractor Calculator's website [url]. Also, you could try using the CUK search button for other information about this and other topics that may concern you before asking on the forum sites because the answers will probably be there. Good luck.

Not....

Oh jeeezzz. when are we going to stop wasting our time on this stupid carp? We've answered this loads of times in recent weeks. There is such a thing as a search button, you know. Trying finding out for yourself and you'll find the answers are all there and if not, why don't you bugger off back to permiedom as you're clearly not capable of thinking for yourself.

The message is the same, the expectation of self reliance is the same, but the tone totally different.

[cojak]

I must admit, I did start answering questions as para1, but when the 4th newbie in a week asked the same question - I did slide into para2.

And no - doing your own research does not mean asking the question in this forum before seeking out government, accounting, industry websites and reading faqs....

We do not spend hours researching for your q's because you 'haven't got the time' (read 'can't be @rsed') to do your own reading.