Agency PSLs? (Yes agency, not client.)

[TheFaQQer]

The IT culture clearly involves taking quotes out of context as well. Have you tried a career as a gutter press journalist in the past?

Weren't you a journalist at some stage? ISTR something on PCG about it.

[Ardesco]

Chrisos, ignore everyone of here that encourages you to go limited and suggesting that the risks are minimal. There is clearly an IT culture on here and probably on the PCG fora too that is encouraging the 'safety in numbers -we're all in this together, so the more there is defying common sense and my accountants advice, the more we can satisfy ourselves that we're not really doing anything wrong - with no obvious evidence that this is a good way to go. Malvolio, I'm afraid is chiefly responsible for this attitude. But ask any accountant that is reputable, and they will certainly not advise you to take silly risks like that.

My god you don't half come out with some rubbish Denny!

You will probably be dismayed to find out that the vast majority of people running LTD companies are doing it by the book (yes there are a few that aren't but this is the case with anything in life) and are at no more risk of "being caught" by an HMRC investigation than a BoS contractor going through an umbrella. I personally listen to what my accountant tells me, as I'm sure the majority of people do. Just because we don't agree with your jaded views and dislike your holier than thou attitude does not mean that we are wrong.

If you want to believe that everybody running a Ltd Company is a criminal, that's your problem. It does not however make it true and I for one resent the implication.

I know you seem to find it hard to palette the possibility that some people have found a better way to do things than you, but please try and reign in the green eyed monster that seems regularly take an outing in these forums and realise that you are not always right, and will rarely ever be the best (I have learnt from experience that no matter how good you think you are there is always somebody better out there).

[Denny]

My god you don't half come out with some rubbish Denny!

You will probably be dismayed to find out that the vast majority of people running LTD companies are doing it by the book

I don't think this forum is mainly for people running limited companies by the book though. If they were they probably wouldn't be in IT. Do you see many posters on here running entrepeneurial set ups? I don't. These are the companies that are irrelevant to the ir35 investigators, and use a limited companies as they were intended to be used. These operators don't tend to post on here. So what do you mean when you say - 'most of those who run a limited company are doing it by the book?' This forum is not representative of 'most' limited companies. These tend to be the clients not the contractors posting on here.

So, unless you can demonstrate clearly on here that most who do post here as one man bands, usually but not always through EBs but still manage to see both the upper and lower contracts and work outside ir35 in practice then your answer is largely irrelevant to the vast majority of SMEs or even large incorporated companies.

The rest either live in cloud cuckoo land or else they go through brollies. You only have to read the queries and concerns to see that most don't work by the book at all - well not sufficiently well enough not to risk a protracted investigation from Gordo, irrespective of the end result, should they be unlucky enough to be investigated in the first place.

Also, I'm not trying to be holier than thou as you so childishly put it. I'm trying to be helpful to readers with genuine queries. So I would very much appreciate it if you would stop thwarting my efforts to do just that, so that you can take up valuable forum space wasting everyone's time attacking me personally with your bullying antics simply because I don't agree with you.

[Ardesco]

I'm not trying to be holier than thou as you so childishly put it. I'm trying to be helpful to readers with genuine queries. So I would very much appreciate it if you would stop thwarting my efforts to do just that, so that you can take up valuable space by wasting time attacking me personally with your bullying antics simply because I don't agree with you.

Of course not, you first imply that everybody running a LTD company on these forums is scamming their way through life (and then repeat it in your rebuff), but you aren't being holier than thou.

You are telling people not to use a Ltd Company for their contracting even if they have IR35 insurance that will indemnify them against any payouts if they are found liable for IR35, but instead that they should go through an umbrella and pay tax on everything (despite the fact that the majority of umbrella's do their best to imply that you can claim everything and anything without receipts, which is criminal behaviour in my opinion). How is this helping people.

On the one hand you are saying:

"Hey everybody spend more money than you have to because I think that is the way you should run your business"

On the other hand you are saying:

"Personally, I would simply refuse to deal with any EB that told me how to run my company - and that includes payment structures."

A slight contradiction nes pas?

Finally, you imply that I am running my company illegally and I call you out and you accuse me of bullying you? Are you for real? Wander back off to your sad deluded little world where you are the centre of the universe and give the rest of us some well deserved peace will you.

[Denny]

Of course not, you first imply that everybody running a LTD company on these forums is scamming their way through life (and then repeat it in your rebuff), but you aren't being holier than thou.

You are telling people not to use a Ltd Company for their contracting even if they have IR35 insurance that will indemnify them against any payouts if they are found liable for IR35, but instead that they should go through an umbrella and pay tax on everything (despite the fact that the majority of umbrella's do their best to imply that you can claim everything and anything without receipts, which is criminal behaviour in my opinion). How is this helping people.

On the one hand you are saying:

"Hey everybody spend more money than you have to because I think that is the way you should run your business"

On the other hand you are saying:

"Personally, I would simply refuse to deal with any EB that told me how to run my company - and that includes payment structures."

A slight contradiction nes pas?

Finally, you imply that I am running my company illegally and I call you out and you accuse me of bullying you? Are you for real? Wander back off to your sad deluded little world where you are the centre of the universe and give the rest of us some well deserved peace will you.

-----------------

Of course not, you first imply that everybody running a LTD company on these forums is scamming their way through life (and then repeat it in your rebuff), but you aren't being holier than thou.

You really are the prize banana of the year, for that Adesco. Who said anything about scamming? You have libelled me on this forum once too often. I said they are trying to get away with something they might come unstuck with later on because of worrying gaps in the contract negotiations. A friendly warning, not a criticism about dishonesty.

You are telling people not to use a Ltd Company for their contracting even if they have IR35 insurance that will indemnify them against any payouts if they are found liable for IR35, but instead that they should go through an umbrella and pay tax on everything (despite the fact that the majority of umbrella's do their best to imply that you can claim everything and anything without receipts, which is criminal behaviour in my opinion). How is this helping people.

Do Parasol encourage people to submit expense claims without receipts? I think not. Nor does any other reputable brollie. They are just tax inefficient, but safe, not encouragers of dishonest behaviour. Some do this, but I haven't advertised use of these brollies in any of my posts.

On the one hand you are saying:

"Hey everybody spend more money than you have to because I think that is the way you should run your business"

I note the quotation marks. Can you paste the link for where this quotation is taken from one of my previous posts?

On the other hand you are saying:

"Personally, I would simply refuse to deal with any EB that told me how to run my company - and that includes payment structures."

A slight contradiction nes pas?

No it isn't. Don't insult the French.

Finally, you imply that I am running my company illegally and I call you out and you accuse me of bullying you? Are you for real? Wander back off to your sad deluded little world where you are the centre of the universe and give the rest of us some well deserved peace will you.

I don't remember my original answer being specifically directed at you. So now who is the centre of the universe? I was answering someone else who raised the intial query in the first post of this thread. You are a bully because of all the examples I have given in this extended answer that is carefully laid out to answer each point in turn. The rest of your answer to the above is pure bullying which tends to only comes from people who can't think straight (as you clearly can't), who project their own weaknesses onto others and who tend to read into things that aren't there, just as I've shown.

So now who's deluded?

[NotAllThere]

A slight contradiction nes pas?

n'est pas.

[NotAllThere]

On the one hand you are saying:

"Hey everybody spend more money than you have to because I think that is the way you should run your business"

I note the quotation marks. Can you paste the link for where this quotation is taken from one of my previous posts?

Surely you are aware that quotation marks aren't only used for direct quoting. And that the verb "saying" permits paraphrase.

[Bluebird]

Morning all,

I've just had a strange thing happen, my agency has just sent me an email announcing that they have a preferred supplier list of umbrella companies.

And, since my umbrella company is not on the list, at my next renewal, I get to either:

1. Change umbrella company,
2. start my own limited company (oh good grief, not again!), or,
3. not renew.

The eight companies they have listed on their PSL, are all large well known names in the world of accounting for contractors, but frankly as far as I can see they seem to be good at making money for themselves rather than contractors, never actually innovating new ways of doing things in the contractor's favour.

Since when did agencies get to dictate how my income is processed? I went though this nearly two decades ago*. If the agency hand off the funds to another limited company, surely that limited company is liable for unpaid taxes? Am I missing something here?

I have just been on the phone, and was informed that several ATSCO agencies are doing the same thing, on the advice of KPMG.

Anyway, the end result is that I have let them know that I will not be renewing the contract if they are going to change terms and conditions unilaterally in this regard. I am expecting a call from someone higher up the management chain.

Has anyone else met this? And if so how do you plan on dealing with it?

I shall keep you informed of progress.

-----------------------------------------------

* I seem to remember a single contractor didn't pay his tax when he was self-employed on schedule D. The revenue came after the agency for unpaid taxes. After that, all contractors had to have a limited company, in order for the agencies to have no liability in the event of non-payment of taxes by a contractor.

Chrisos - in answer to the original point - one thing you might want to point out to the agency is that a PSL is just that a "preferred" [ hope I used the quotation marks correctly ], this does not usually disqualify any others.

You may want to ask the agency under what criteria they have drawn up their list [ are they taking back handers ?? ] and why can't you use your "preferred" brolly.

[Bluebird]

One other thing - check the contract with the agency - if you don't renew you may still be able to work for the client through another agency.

[WindyAnna]

I know of at least 3 agencies who now have a "preferred suppliers list" of just about every umbrella you have ever heard of