Agency PSLs? (Yes agency, not client.)

[Chrisos]

Morning all,

I've just had a strange thing happen, my agency has just sent me an email announcing that they have a preferred supplier list of umbrella companies.

And, since my umbrella company is not on the list, at my next renewal, I get to either:

1. Change umbrella company,
2. start my own limited company (oh good grief, not again!), or,
3. not renew.

The eight companies they have listed on their PSL, are all large well known names in the world of accounting for contractors, but frankly as far as I can see they seem to be good at making money for themselves rather than contractors, never actually innovating new ways of doing things in the contractor's favour.

Since when did agencies get to dictate how my income is processed? I went though this nearly two decades ago*. If the agency hand off the funds to another limited company, surely that limited company is liable for unpaid taxes? Am I missing something here?

I have just been on the phone, and was informed that several ATSCO agencies are doing the same thing, on the advice of KPMG.

Anyway, the end result is that I have let them know that I will not be renewing the contract if they are going to change terms and conditions unilaterally in this regard. I am expecting a call from someone higher up the management chain.

Has anyone else met this? And if so how do you plan on dealing with it?

I shall keep you informed of progress.

-----------------------------------------------

* I seem to remember a single contractor didn't pay his tax when he was self-employed on schedule D. The revenue came after the agency for unpaid taxes. After that, all contractors had to have a limited company, in order for the agencies to have no liability in the event of non-payment of taxes by a contractor.

[TheFaQQer]

Morning all,

I've just had a strange thing happen, my agency has just sent me an email announcing that they have a preferred supplier list of umbrella companies.

And, since my umbrella company is not on the list, at my next renewal, I get to either:

1. Change umbrella company,
2. start my own limited company (oh good grief, not again!), or,
3. not renew.

The eight companies they have listed on their PSL, are all large well known names in the world of accounting for contractors, but frankly as far as I can see they seem to be good at making money for themselves rather than contractors, never actually innovating new ways of doing things in the contractor's favour.

Since when did agencies get to dictate how my income is processed? I went though this nearly two decades ago*. If the agency hand off the funds to another limited company, surely that limited company is liable for unpaid taxes? Am I missing something here?

I have just been on the phone, and was informed that several ATSCO agencies are doing the same thing, on the advice of KPMG.

Anyway, the end result is that I have let them know that I will not be renewing the contract if they are going to change terms and conditions unilaterally in this regard. I am expecting a call from someone higher up the management chain.

Has anyone else met this? And if so how do you plan on dealing with it?

I shall keep you informed of progress.

-----------------------------------------------

* I seem to remember a single contractor didn't pay his tax when he was self-employed on schedule D. The revenue came after the agency for unpaid taxes. After that, all contractors had to have a limited company, in order for the agencies to have no liability in the event of non-payment of taxes by a contractor.

Have a search - we did this last week.

[Gonzo]

If searching is too difficult, see this link here.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...lier-list.html

I use my own Ltd co. It really is not difficult.

hth

[sidknows]

who's the agency

[Chrisos]

If searching is too difficult, see this link here.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...lier-list.html

I use my own Ltd co. It really is not difficult.

hth

Searching was not too difficult, but thanks for the link, I read the other thread.

As for your other point, as it goes, I've run my own Ltd. co., and frankly it was a pain in the arse, it also put me at risk in numerous ways should HMRC have decided to force the IR35 issue, or just randomly decided to audit and cause me huge fees for a set of audited accounts to prove I was not robbing them, hence my move from ltd. co., to my current umbrella.

As time goes by, it seems ever more inventive ways are found to make a contractor's life more difficult, whether by HMRC, agencies or the clients. I think I might join the program and impose some random restrictions on myself starting yesterday. Maybe, "Thou shalt not breath a client's air conditioned air without paying of an indirect benefit-in-kind yearly fee of £26,000 (index linked)", or perhaps, "At all times one eye or the other must be closed while on a client site".

Is it too much to ask, to work and get paid without being treated like some money laundering criminal in league with the forces of darkness?

[Ardesco]

In other words the current governments bully boy tactics worked and you rolled over and started to pony up a load of tax you don't really need to.

My feelings lie more along the lines of:

We shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills,
we shall never surrender!

I refuse to be bullied into believing that I am a criminal for running my company in the most tax efficient way legally possible and damn the current government if I do not meet their utopian ideal. My grandfather didn't fight in the war so that Nu Liemore could strip away our freedoms and make every good and honest person in the country feel like a criminal while patting the true criminals on the back and telling them that it's not really their fault that they are scum.

DOWN WITH IR35 AND ALL THE CURRENT CRONIES IN POWER!!! LETS START A REVOLUTION!!!!

[NotAllThere]

As for your other point, as it goes, I've run my own Ltd. co., and frankly it was a pain in the arse, it also put me at risk in numerous ways should HMRC have decided to force the IR35 issue, or just randomly decided to audit and cause me huge fees for a set of audited accounts to prove I was not robbing them, hence my move from ltd. co., to my current umbrella.

You can get insurance for that. And, quite seriously, can you get insurance against your umbrella going into administration with your money unpaid? Or against the IR deciding to investigate you anyway? Perhaps disallowing a whole raft of expenses that your umbrella okayed, knowing that _you_ would end up holding the baby, not them.

Just a thought.

[Denny]

I'm surprised that ATSCO are pressing for this PSL system for brollies. That was precisely what EBs were advised NOT to continue doing when the MSC rule changes came about last April - for risk of being viewed as an MSC.

I thought it was only a minority of EBs doing this - like S3 group.

Personally, I would simply refuse to deal with any EB that told me how to run my company - and that includes payment structures.

Chrisos, ignore everyone of here that encourages you to go limited and suggesting that the risks are minimal. There is clearly an IT culture on here and probably on the PCG fora too that is encouraging the 'safety in numbers -we're all in this together, so the more there is defying common sense and my accountants advice, the more we can satisfy ourselves that we're not really doing anything wrong - with no obvious evidence that this is a good way to go. Malvolio, I'm afraid is chiefly responsible for this attitude. But ask any accountant that is reputable, and they will certainly not advise you to take silly risks like that.

The point is this: going limited is only an economically viable option if you are sure that your business is largely an outside ir35 type of operation by default (acorn to oaktree entrepreneurial) or most, if not all of your contracts as an interim or contract clearly fall outside ir35 on paper (lower and upper contract) and in practice when the engagement starts. I suspect that for most contractors this simply is not the case no matter how much they kid themselves - insurance or not. So, if most of your contracts are borderline and you play safe and pay ir35 I doubt that the savings you could still make over and above what a good brollie charges with taxes would outweigh the temptation to cheat and risk being outside to see what happens and all the additional hassle of running a limited.

Good luck.

[TheFaQQer]

There is clearly an IT culture on here

Contractor UK
The IT Contractor Portal

and it has an IT culture? Surely not

[Denny]

Contractor UK
The IT Contractor Portal

and it has an IT culture? Surely not

The IT culture clearly involves taking quotes out of context as well. Have you tried a career as a gutter press journalist in the past?