Sanzar Partnership? New IOM company

[DonkeyRhubarb]

please keep us updated. one question - why do you say things are coming to a head? My understanding is that MTM trying to get HMRC to challenge them but HMRC just resort to usual bully boy tactics. HMRC know they will lose...

If the retrospective legislation gets approved in July then I'm sure HMRC will start immediately issuing tax demands. If MTM advise us not to pay, then I think it will end up in court very quickly. That's what I meant by things coming to a head. The investigation has been dragging on for 5 years now but I reckon it's coming to an end one way or the other.

Of course, if the retrospective ammendment is dropped, then although HMRC will never admit this, they are effectively dead in the water.

Personally, I think it's disgraceful that they are retrospectively ammending legislation from 20 years ago, when they could have closed the loophole in 2003 if they'd got their finger out!

[BrilloPad]

If the retrospective legislation gets approved in July then I'm sure HMRC will start immediately issuing tax demands. If MTM advise us not to pay, then I think it will end up in court very quickly. That's what I meant by things coming to a head. The investigation has been dragging on for 5 years now but I reckon it's coming to an end one way or the other.

Of course, if the retrospective ammendment is dropped, then although HMRC will never admit this, they are effectively dead in the water.

Personally, I think it's disgraceful that they are retrospectively ammending legislation from 20 years ago, when they could have closed the loophole in 2003 if they'd got their finger out!

I really really hope you are right. I want it to come to a head. I heard rumours that MTM were aiming for Q4 of 2007 - but I would settle for Q4 2008!

[Shanshan]

Hi all,

Very informative posts!!!

I'm currently working under PAYE as a temp, and getting 68% of what I earn.

Are Sanzar & Tax design okay? Does anyone currently use them? Who is preferable?

I want to earn as much as possible without breaking the law.

Any advice would be great

Cheers

Shan

[poppy01]

my twopenneth

I agree with DonkeyRhubarb, if there is any chance of a successful legal challenge on human rights or whatever grounds to the retropective aspects of the legislation, HMRC could have potentially lost years of revenue. If they'd just accepted the loophole existed and changed the law, the Montpelier scheme would have been closed years ago. If they lose in court they're stuffed. But then, when did they ever show any common sense...

I was lucky(?) enough to have stayed with MP for only 2 years, between 2001and 2002 so the debt when it comes might be manageable (I wonder if anyone knows whether you can raid your pension to pay off a tax bill), but it never sat well with me, I just thought at that time I had no options.

I understand those on the forum who have little sympathy, but to me at that time it seemed a matter of survival. I can only say that the very idea of any kind of retropective legislation, tax or whatever, just isnt RIGHT. Does the whole thing not completely undermine the covenant between individual and the law thats built up around the 'certainty' of the law at the time any action is undertaken. Surely this is a Pandora's box that should not be opened for what seems to me to be no more than a vendetta....

[NotAllThere]

... Does the whole thing not completely undermine the covenant between individual and the law thats built up around the 'certainty' of the law at the time any action is undertaken. Surely this is a Pandora's box that should not be opened for what seems to me to be no more than a vendetta....

Pandora's box has already been opened - IR35; no certainty, vindictively aimed at contractors.

[Shanshan]

So as a conclusion, would you advise people to enter or not enter the IOM Sanzar partnership arrangement?

[poppy01]

retrospective law???

I noted with interest that the high court just threw out the retrospective aspects of the new immigration points system,

from the bbc - quoting Chris Huhn

"Changes like these must never be made retrospectively. Ministers must not only accept this ruling, but also undertake never again to introduce changes in the rules without properly checking that they are fair, proportionate and legal."

[BrilloPad]

Hi all,

Very informative posts!!!

I'm currently working under PAYE as a temp, and getting 68% of what I earn.

Are Sanzar & Tax design okay? Does anyone currently use them? Who is preferable?

I want to earn as much as possible without breaking the law.

Any advice would be great

Cheers

Shan

I currently use montpelier. I think they are great.

what do you mean by breaking the law? HMRC seem to think that not paying tax/NI on their limited company turnover is breaking the law...

[BrilloPad]

I agree with DonkeyRhubarb, if there is any chance of a successful legal challenge on human rights or whatever grounds to the retropective aspects of the legislation, HMRC could have potentially lost years of revenue. If they'd just accepted the loophole existed and changed the law, the Montpelier scheme would have been closed years ago. If they lose in court they're stuffed. But then, when did they ever show any common sense...

I was lucky(?) enough to have stayed with MP for only 2 years, between 2001and 2002 so the debt when it comes might be manageable (I wonder if anyone knows whether you can raid your pension to pay off a tax bill), but it never sat well with me, I just thought at that time I had no options.

I understand those on the forum who have little sympathy, but to me at that time it seemed a matter of survival. I can only say that the very idea of any kind of retropective legislation, tax or whatever, just isnt RIGHT. Does the whole thing not completely undermine the covenant between individual and the law thats built up around the 'certainty' of the law at the time any action is undertaken. Surely this is a Pandora's box that should not be opened for what seems to me to be no more than a vendetta....

I have seen cases in fathers 4 justice where magna carta has been broken. Just the other day we saw chinese thugs on the streets breaking the UK law (specifically the right to protest).

But I dont blame the government - I blame those who stand(lie?) idly by while our freedoms are eroded.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Can Montpelier survive losing the case?

Montpelier have built there core business around tax planning. Sure they have banked a lot of fees over the last few years from the ir35 scheme but if they lost the case it would severely damage their reputation. Moreover, the ir35 scheme is not the only arrangement they have based around the dta loophole, so we can only speculate as to how much of their business is riding on this.

I don't see how they could continue to promote tax planning in the same way if they lost these high profile cases. How many contractors still in the scheme would switch to their new offering if the original scheme failed? How many companies, high rollers would continue to place their trust in them?

Of course, if they win the case I'm sure they will have no trouble attracting new business. I suspect a lot of potential clients are standing on the sidelines at the moment waiting to see how it turns out.

The stakes are arguably just as high for Montpelier as they are for us. The price of failure will be very painful for all concerned.