HMRC chasing my closed Ltd for Class 1 NI that should've been sent from umbrella

**eek** · 20 September 2021, 10:01

Originally posted by PTP View Post

I've received a brown envelope this morning (addressed to old Ltd)
My Ltd ceased to exist April 2020 and last traded October 2019.
I've been using an umbrella since October 2020 (was on the bench for the 12 months in between)
The letter is chasing my closed Ltd for Class 1 NIC that were payable May, June and July 2021

Those 3 months were in a new gig, using an umbrella, where the client needlessly issue me with an SDS.
I don't think it's any coincidence that it's happened after this gig where I was needlessly issued an SDS.

Also annoying that HMRC have made the connection of me personally to my former Ltd.

Rant over, time to get onto the former accountant for their advice. Or should it be QDOS?

Why?

Your company is closed so you just need to repeat that fact to HMRC... Also, surely you have payslips from May to July that show that the umbrella firm was paying you.

Unless there is something you've missed out here, a very short letter and a copy of your payslips should sort out the misunderstanding very quickly.

1 thing I would recommend is that you very rapidly check what is reported in your HMRC personal tax account because if everything was 100% above board with the umbrella you shouldn't be getting any letters like this.

**Fred Bloggs** · 20 September 2021, 10:13

Originally posted by eek View Post

Why?

Your company is closed so you just need to repeat that fact to HMRC... Also, surely you have payslips from May to July that show that the umbrella firm was paying you.

Unless there is something you've missed out here, a very short letter and a copy of your payslips should sort out the misunderstanding very quickly.

1 thing I would recommend is that you very rapidly check what is reported in your HMRC personal tax account because if everything was 100% above board with the umbrella you shouldn't be getting any letters like this.

Fascinating to understand if there's more to this story. Otherwise, a quick phone call to HMRC would close it out.

**Maslins** · 20 September 2021, 10:17

I'd be surprised if this had any connection to your new umbrella work, but hard to know without seeing the letter you're referring to. Do the amounts they're requesting in any way tally with your umbrella work?

If they don't, then based on the limited info in your post and situations we've seen, I'd guess this wasn't anything to do with the umbrella/SDS, and what actually happened is:
- you left your company's payroll,
- you/your accountant didn't properly close the payroll scheme,
- HMRC therefore expect continued RTI submissions from your company, which weren't made,
- HMRC have sent out an automated letter, with assessments (ie guesses) for what the PAYE/NIC liability on the periods might be.

Yes I appreciate from your post it sounds like there's circa a year gap where your company wasn't doing anything, I don't know whether HMRC were chasing anything during that time. The HMRC automated letter churning out machine is a bit of a shambles, often sending letters re companies that were dissolved years earlier.

If the above does sound plausible, either liaise with HMRC's PAYE dept yourself to explain the PAYE scheme should be closed and advise when from, or see if your accountant can deal with it for you, or alternatively if the company is fully dissolved, you may just decide to ignore it.

**Fred Bloggs** · 20 September 2021, 10:25

Originally posted by Maslins View Post

I'd be surprised if this had any connection to your new umbrella work, but hard to know without seeing the letter you're referring to. Do the amounts they're requesting in any way tally with your umbrella work?

If they don't, then based on the limited info in your post and situations we've seen, I'd guess this wasn't anything to do with the umbrella/SDS, and what actually happened is:
- you left your company's payroll,
- you/your accountant didn't properly close the payroll scheme,
- HMRC therefore expect continued RTI submissions from your company, which weren't made,
- HMRC have sent out an automated letter, with assessments (ie guesses) for what the PAYE/NIC liability on the periods might be.

Yes I appreciate from your post it sounds like there's circa a year gap where your company wasn't doing anything, I don't know whether HMRC were chasing anything during that time. The HMRC automated letter churning out machine is a bit of a shambles, often sending letters re companies that were dissolved years earlier.

If the above does sound plausible, either liaise with HMRC's PAYE dept yourself to explain the PAYE scheme should be closed and advise when from, or see if your accountant can deal with it for you, or alternatively if the company is fully dissolved, you may just decide to ignore it.

Personally, I'd never ignore anything from HMRC. But I guess you've seen this a lot more than the rest of us. I'd call them or write a simple letter having checked the brolly payslips are correct first.

**Maslins** · 20 September 2021, 10:32

Originally posted by Fred Bloggs View Post

Personally, I'd never ignore anything from HMRC. But I guess you've seen this a lot more than the rest of us. I'd call them or write a simple letter having checked the brolly payslips are correct first.

If it does tally with the brolly, yes, I'd agree, I'd be nervous what's going on there.

My guess is it has nothing to do with the brolly (other than the periods happen to coincide), and it's basically just HMRC's automated machine saying "oi you didn't send payroll submissions, so you might owe something" for periods where you know no payroll was done by a company that is already dissolved. Where that is the case, their letter is dumb, should never have been sent, and if ever an actual human at HMRC were to look into it their end they'd agree...but unfortunately "cost savings"/"efficiency improvements" mean increasingly HMRC just send out millions of letters every day, most of them wrong, and rely on you to spend half an hour on hold to attempt to get their records rectified. We can't always be bothered to play that game(!).

**eek** · 20 September 2021, 10:39

Having given this slightly more thought I suspect I know what has happened - is this agency one you have used in the past?

I think they've screwed up their agency reporting regulations report and entered your old company's details on it...

**PTP** · 20 September 2021, 10:42

Apologies.......It's income tax and NI. I was too freaked out and assumed it was just NI because of it saying "amount owed as an employer".

No the amounts on that letter don't tally with the umbrella wage slips.
Weird how the amounts for each of the 3 months are exactly the same (In case it helps: The amounts are way above what it would be with NMW too).
So how on earth they arrived at those amounts, I don't know

**PTP** · 20 September 2021, 10:47

Originally posted by eek View Post

Having given this slightly more thought I suspect I know what has happened - is this agency one you have used in the past?

I think they've screwed up their agency reporting regulations report and entered your old company's details on it...

No I've never used this agency in the past. I would have sent them my CV in the past, but I've never been in an engagement with them prior to this umbrella one.

**eek** · 20 September 2021, 10:48

Actually it looks like a scam

SCAM HMRC LETTER - WARNING | David Beckman & Co Ltd

Only revealed by checking the number...

I take it the companies registered address is where the letter went to?

See also

Who Called Me from 03002003819? | UK Free Reverse Phone Lookup (unknownphone.com) which has an email address to foreward the letter to...

HMRC chasing my closed Ltd for Class 1 NI that should've been sent from umbrella