Allowable expenses - university training

[radium0022]

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum so I just wanted to take the chance to thank you all for the information shared so far!

I have been contracting for some time already - last project in date was a nine month contract as a data scientist with a famous social network company.

In this field, things are moving really fast. There are constantly new algorithms, models, coding languages etc to learn which is really exciting but requires a lot of time and resources to be on top of the game.

I was thinking to apply for a part time master degree in data science to keep up to date and strengthen some of my skills. Do you believe that this would be considered as an allowable expense? If yes, would I be able to claim back VAT as well?

To go a bit further, I was looking at some case law and it seems that I am not really in a "bad" case here.

In Dass v Special Commissioner and others [2006] EWHC2491 (Ch), the taxpayer traded as a tutor in English and as an advisor in relation to the bringing of appeals before various tribunals. He took a course which would have led to a diploma in law (LL Dip) qualification and claimed a deduction for re-sit examination fees (having missed the original examinations due to illness). The Special Commissioner decided that the fees were capital in nature

(source BIM35660 - Business Income Manual - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK).

Thanks again!

[GhostofTarbera]

No

+ masters degree is likely to be a tad behind the real world experience so waste of money anyhoo


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[eek]

No

+ masters degree is likely to be a tad behind the real world experience so waste of money anyhoo


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Also there is a difference between your company paying for you to earn a masters degree and trying to claim it as an expense when self employed. The limited company probably makes it a step too far..

[northernladuk]

Very unlikely getting any kind of high end qualification will teach you anything about current tech. They just don't have the time to get the curriculum sorted before it's out of date. So the question of it being expensable is redundant as it won't give you what you need.

You want smaller industry courses to keep on top of latest tech. Will they be expensable? It will depend on the content and if it's new learning or shoring up existing knowledge.

[ladymuck]

In reading that link in full, it looks like the argument was about whether the charges were a capital or revenue expense, which affects their tax treatment (it was deemed capital and so no tax deduction allowed):

Where attendance at a course is intended to give business proprietors new expertise, knowledge or skills, which they lack, it brings into existence an advantage that is of enduring benefit to the business. We take the view that the expenditure is therefore of a capital nature, and deduction is prohibited by [S33 Income Tax (Trading and Other Income) Act 2005 (ITTOIA 2005)].

On the other hand, where attendance is merely to update expertise etc. which proprietors already possess, the expenditure is normally regarded as revenue expenditure and will be deductible if it satisfies the “wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade” test in [S34(1)(a) ITTOIA 2005]’ - see BIM42105.

I think you read down to something that reinforced your PoV and didn't take in the full detail.

[jayn200]

It's not an allowable expense. There is no way around it that I could find, I tried myself to look for it.

I disagree that it's useless though I have a technical masters and an MBA both have helped me secure work. Sure if you're 50 years old and have 25 years experience in your skill area then it probably won't do much but if you're 30 with 5 years experience it will help you be competitive with those people 10+ years in your area... if you plan to stay contracting its just going to get way more competitive so you have to do everything you can.

Also disagree that education is behind real world in this area. People who say that have no idea what they are talking about. Data science is literally that... it's taking scientific research methodology (statistics) and applying to the business world. Academia is way ahead of the private sector when it comes to math and statistics.

[cannon999]

As somebody who has fairly recently (6 years ago) got a degree in Computer Science (1st) from a fairly known university (Russel Group uni), I can confirm that it was fairly useless for my line of work (Software Development & Consulting). It was really useful for getting me through that first door - after that nobody cares. Skill wise I am not sure what you could possibly learn at university that would help you if you already have a well established career. People who went on to do Masters and further went into teaching.

[jayn200]

As somebody who has fairly recently (6 years ago) got a degree in Computer Science (1st) from a fairly known university (Russel Group uni), I can confirm that it was fairly useless for my line of work (Software Development & Consulting). It was really useful for getting me through that first door - after that nobody cares. Skill wise I am not sure what you could possibly learn at university that would help you if you already have a well established career. People who went on to do Masters and further went into teaching.

Did you go into data science?

Half the job postings specifically ask for a MSc or Phd in math/statistics/data science. As a field it's not equivalent to programming.

It's 50% statistics/math 50% programming. They actually generally don't care if you're self taught on the programming side (Which matches with your experience) but generally do care that you are traditionally taught math/statistics.

It is a fairly new field though so not every employer/client is able to be as picky as they like as there is a massive skill shortage but it's definitely not the same type of situation going on as programming.

[GhostofTarbera]

No employer (uni excluded) gives a toss about uni degrees (except for recent grads 20 year olds not people above 22) over 30 it just looks desperate


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[cannon999]

Did you go into data science?

Half the job postings specifically ask for a MSc or Phd in math/statistics/data science. As a field it's not equivalent to programming.

It's 50% statistics/math 50% programming. They actually generally don't care if you're self taught on the programming side (Which matches with your experience) but generally do care that you are traditionally taught math/statistics.

It is a fairly new field though so not every employer/client is able to be as picky as they like as there is a massive skill shortage but it's definitely not the same type of situation going on as programming.

I am not sure which job postings you are referring to, they certainly won't be software development related. Very rarely I see contracts posted that require any sort of educational qualifications (although that does happen). It depends on what your aspirations are in your career. If you want to make money, then MSc and Phd are a completely idiotic thing to get. That's just extra 5-6 years that you could be earning £££ growing your wealth and beefing up your CV with real work instead of getting into more debt and learning f-all to do with the real world. If you are interested in a career in education then there is nothing wrong with going into further studies.

I was already working for a company by the time I was in my 3rd year of university (part time) and that company tried to convince me to quit uni to work for them full time because they clearly already saw me as a capable developer. I, of-course, stuck to it and finished the degree but nobody has ever asked me to see my diploma and I don't even know where it is at this point.

Also as a very skilled software developer you will already have a logical mind inclined to solve problems so maths/statistics should not be an issue. There isn't a single strong developer I know who hasn't excelled at maths in their studies. Obviously I am not talking about the grey-haired developers who now make money just by shaking their CV that has 20 years worth of 'experience'.


Again I am only speaking for my line of work. Others may have different experience. My opinion is that going to university if you already have an established career is lunacy.