Early IR35 Determination for 2021...

[eek]

Let's hope you get an outside SDS delivered at midnight on the day your contract ends then eh ? Although if you're outside now then you'll be outside after April 2021 won't you ? If I get an outside determination from QDOS now does that indemnify me against any penalties or investigations HMRC might raise in the future ? Presumably they're not going to indemnify your clients after April 21 ?

Sorry but what are you talking about? I've now read it 4 times and I don't have a clue what you are trying to say there

For my last contract I had a QDOS contract review before beginning and a check of working practices 1 month after I began. I also left it earlier this year to ensure that there was zero chance of any determination being made (3 weeks later the end client actually issued a blanket ban).

I now own a small consultancy - we don't do inside IR35 work and I will turn down any clients that even insist on a check...

[radish2008]

Personally I think you are grasping at straws here and applying what you think. That's your prerogative... just some added thoughts though. .

That's the thing with IR35. It's all opinions. I'm happy that I can prove I'm inside now. That's been the same situation since I started contracting.

The clients opinion is also just currently that. An opinion that doesn't legally count (no matter what anybody infers).

In April next year the situation is completely reversed and not mine but every contractors opinion counts for nothing and only the opinion of the client matters, right or wrong. I doubt very much whether any large company will accept the opinion of QDOS but who knows, again that's up to them.

I'll be speaking to the client over the next few days so will keep this thread updated. If anything it will give others things to consider.

[eek]

That's the thing with IR35. It's all opinions. I'm happy that I can prove I'm inside now. That's been the same situation since I started contracting.

The clients opinion is also just currently that. An opinion that doesn't legally count (no matter what anybody infers).

In April next year the situation is completely reversed and not mine but every contractors opinion counts for nothing and only the opinion of the client matters, right or wrong. I doubt very much whether any large company will accept the opinion of QDOS but who knows, again that's up to them.

I'll be speaking to the client over the next few days so will keep this thread updated. If anything it will give others things to consider.

Grabbed quickly - thanks for the confirmation.

But assuming you mean you are outside now - I suspect you can't actually prove your working practices are outside IR35 - because you've already told us you don't do independent 3rd party validation.

[radish2008]

Grabbed quickly - thanks for the confirmation.

But assuming you mean you are outside now - I suspect you can't actually prove your working practices are outside IR35 - because you've already told us you don't do independent 3rd party validation.

Hahah. Ok I won't even edit it now ...

I don't think everyone does independent 3rd party validation. You did and good for you. That doesn't make it essential for everyone.

[eek]

Hahah. Ok I won't even edit it now ...

I don't think everyone does independent 3rd party validation. You did and good for you. That doesn't make it essential for everyone.

But you don't have any other evidence - so it will be your word against the client's and the client has now given you a written viewpoint that they believe the role is inside IR35.

[radish2008]

But you don't have any other evidence - so it will be your word against the client's and the client has now given you a written viewpoint that they believe the role is inside IR35.

No they haven't. They have said that after April 2021 any NEW engagement will be inside. You're assuming that HMRC will view that as an indication that the current contract is inside and that the client would assist them in that and obviously have no idea of what I do or how I do it. I welcome anyone's opinion but let's not pretend that makes it anything other than that. If you can point me at an HMRC investigation where the client worked against it's contractors then fair enough. The GSK case I think was different, HMRC sent letter to the contractors saying they thought they were inside, they didn't contact GSK and ask them to make a determination of inside/outside I don't think.

I noticed there are a few threads on this now so I expect there will be more over the coming months.

[eek]

No they haven't. They have said that after April 2021 any NEW engagement will be inside. You're assuming that HMRC will view that as an indication that the current contract is inside and that the client would assist them in that and obviously have no idea of what I do or how I do it. I welcome anyone's opinion but let's not pretend that makes it anything other than that. If you can point me at an HMRC investigation where the client worked against it's contractors then fair enough. The GSK case I think was different, HMRC sent letter to the contractors saying they thought they were inside, they didn't contact GSK and ask them to make a determination of inside/outside I don't think.

I noticed there are a few threads on this now so I expect there will be more over the coming months.

So you go into the tribunal with HMRC showing the determination for April 2021 as evidence A.

Mr End Client could you tell me what changed in April 2021 that made the role inside IR35?

[northernladuk]

No they haven't. They have said that after April 2021 any NEW engagement will be inside.

Eh? I thought they were going to determine your role inside? Don't quite understand that statement or how it impacts.

You're assuming that HMRC will view that as an indication that the current contract is inside and that the client would assist them in that and obviously have no idea of what I do or how I do it. I welcome anyone's opinion but let's not pretend that makes it anything other than that.

Of course HMRC will see it as indication. It's a statement of fact. The role was outside in the contractors opinion. The client states he expects the role being filled to be inside. You're on the backfoot and you are going to have to prove the clients determination is wrong.

But yes, all guessing.

If you can point me at an HMRC investigation where the client worked against it's contractors then fair enough. The GSK case I think was different, HMRC sent letter to the contractors saying they thought they were inside, they didn't contact GSK and ask them to make a determination of inside/outside I don't think.

I noticed there are a few threads on this now so I expect there will be more over the coming months.

We haven't got there yet but didn't HS2 or one of those projects throw all their contractors under the bus?

If I get an outside determination from QDOS now does that indemnify me against any penalties or investigations HMRC might raise in the future ? Presumably they're not going to indemnify your clients after April 21 ?

If QDOS gives you and outside and insures you but the client then states your inside then there is a fundamental change to your situation and they cannot continue to insure you? That said I must admit what QDOS said about the situation last time. I remember they said they wouldn't insure anyone at GSK that bought insurance after the event but that's different. It's something that if you are rely on you need to investigate very very carefully.

[radish2008]

Eh? I thought they were going to determine your role inside? Don't quite understand that statement or how it impacts.

No. I determine it to be outside now. After April 2021 any new engagement at current client will be only on an inside basis as per their determination.

[eek]

No. I determine it to be inside now. After April 2021 any new engagement at current client will be only on an inside basis as per their determination.

What's changed that you determine it to be inside now when it was outside at the beginning of this thread?