Early IR35 Determination for 2021...

[radish2008]

Hi,

After making an ar$e of IR35 last year the current client sent me a determination for next year the day after I signed a 3 month extension to take me to March 31st next year. Really pleased about the extension but slightly worried that an inside determination might and does contradict my currrent status of outside if investigated. The SDS clearly states it takes effect from April 5th 2021 but I'm thinking of dropping them an official email saying I disagree and I think I remember from somewhere last year that HMRC has said they won't investigate in these situations.

Any thoughts ?

[eek]

Hi,

After making an ar$e of IR35 last year the current client sent me a determination for next year the day after I signed a 3 month extension to take me to March 31st next year. Really pleased about the extension but slightly worried that an inside determination might and does contradict my currrent status of outside if investigated. The SDS clearly states it takes effect from April 5th 2021 but I'm thinking of dropping them an official email saying I disagree and I think I remember from somewhere last year that HMRC has said they won't investigate in these situations.

Any thoughts ?

3 months notice attached to a hint that it's time to find another contract elsewhere before things kick off in April - I don't see what the worry is.

[northernladuk]

Hi,

After making an ar$e of IR35 last year the current client sent me a determination for next year the day after I signed a 3 month extension to take me to March 31st next year. Really pleased about the extension but slightly worried that an inside determination might and does contradict my currrent status of outside if investigated. The SDS clearly states it takes effect from April 5th 2021 but I'm thinking of dropping them an official email saying I disagree and I think I remember from somewhere last year that HMRC has said they won't investigate in these situations.

Any thoughts ?

They sent you a determination? Which was what?

HMRC have said a lot of things they then did...

[GhostofTarbera]

Hi,

After making an ar$e of IR35 last year the current client sent me a determination for next year the day after I signed a 3 month extension to take me to March 31st next year. Really pleased about the extension but slightly worried that an inside determination might and does contradict my currrent status of outside if investigated. The SDS clearly states it takes effect from April 5th 2021 but I'm thinking of dropping them an official email saying I disagree and I think I remember from somewhere last year that HMRC has said they won't investigate in these situations.

Any thoughts ?

Thoughts

What are you on about ?

Seems you have allways been inside to me


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[jamesbrown]

Yes, you should be worried, but this will be extremely common and the damage is done now - you know that, under investigation, your client will not be supportive, so you will most likely be found inside for your current contract. You could leave now or you could leave before April, but I wouldn’t stay beyond April.

[radish2008]

They sent you a determination? Which was what?

HMRC have said a lot of things they then did...

The determination was inside - there are other routes to go down, e.g. change of working practices but all long shots.

[radish2008]

Yes, you should be worried, but this will be extremely common and the damage is done now - you know that, under investigation, your client will not be supportive, so you will most likely be found inside for your current contract. You could leave now or you could leave before April, but I wouldn’t stay beyond April.

Yeah true and I won't.

[northernladuk]

The determination was inside - there are other routes to go down, e.g. change of working practices but all long shots.

Right OK so lets start again..

After making an ar$e of IR35 last year the current client sent me a determination for next year the day after I signed a 3 month extension to take me to March 31st next year. Really pleased about the extension but slightly worried that an inside determination might and does contradict my currrent status of outside if investigated.

And you should be. You're ****ed. The client is telling HMRC you are inside and have been all along. If the client has told you they will determine the role inside from April it means you are inside now. There is some news about HMRC not going after some group but forget that for the moment. Looking at the risk levels they are...

Outside to inside and carrying on - Low hanging fruit for HMRC.
Outside to inside and bail after SDS but before it hits - You are still on the hook but HMRC have to come find you and prove it
Outside to inside but you left before determination - HMRC don't have any evidence so lower risk
and so on...

You are either highest if you stay or send level if you go.. Neither are a situation you really want to be in IMO.

The SDS clearly states it takes effect from April 5th 2021 but I'm thinking of dropping them an official email saying I disagree and I think I remember from somewhere last year that HMRC has said they won't investigate in these situations.

The SDS takes affect when it's given to you. You know you are inside so in theory you really shouldn't be claiming outside. Obviously you dispute so can carry on outside but can't ignore the situation. All you are doing here is dodging a bullet, nothing more.

Up to you and your risk profile as to what to do next. Many lemmings did just carry on when it hit the public sector and when it nearly hit last time and will this time. IMO you don't want to be one of them but with the world turning to rattulip there might not be an option.

Best outcome is to work with your client and see if they will engage someone like QDOS or Brookson to consult on the determinations and see if they can change tack and change the situation to outside. That said if you are doing exactly the same before and after, a few contract changes won't save you.

[radish2008]

Right OK so lets start again..

And you should be. You're ****ed. The client is telling HMRC you are inside and have been all along. If the client has told you they will determine the role inside from April it means you are inside now. There is some news about HMRC not going after some group but forget that for the moment. Looking at the risk levels they are...

Hmmm. I'm not so sure - They aren't telling HMRC anything at the minute. Future working practices won't always equal current working practices either.

The SDS takes affect when it's given to you. You know you are inside so in theory you really shouldn't be claiming outside. Obviously you dispute so can carry on outside but can't ignore the situation. All you are doing here is dodging a bullet, nothing more.

The SDS is clearly intended from them to take effect from April 2021. Do you have a link to anything that says the SDS takes effect from when it's delivered ? That would pull every contractor here into the mire as they are all 'inside'.
I'm not going to dispute it I'm just going to advise them I won't be there after April 2021 - if they want to work with me after that there will need to be a new agreement.

Up to you and your risk profile as to what to do next. Many lemmings did just carry on when it hit the public sector and when it nearly hit last time and will this time. IMO you don't want to be one of them but with the world turning to rattulip there might not be an option.

Best outcome is to work with your client and see if they will engage someone like QDOS or Brookson to consult on the determinations and see if they can change tack and change the situation to outside. That said if you are doing exactly the same before and after, a few contract changes won't save you.

It's up to them - they are the ones that have to manage the risk after all from April 21. They went through a specialist company last year and now the HR Director is calling all the shots and he refuses to negotiate anything.

[eek]

Hmmm. I'm not so sure - They aren't telling HMRC anything at the minute. Future working practices won't always equal current working practices either.



The SDS is clearly intended from them to take effect from April 2021. Do you have a link to anything that says the SDS takes effect from when it's delivered ? That would pull every contractor here into the mire as they are all 'inside'.
I'm not going to dispute it I'm just going to advise them I won't be there after April 2021 - if they want to work with me after that there will need to be a new agreement.



It's up to them - they are the ones that have to manage the risk after all from April 21. They went through a specialist company last year and now the HR Director is calling all the shots and he refuses to negotiate anything.

The SDS merely shows you that the client believes this contract is inside IR35 - what I don't understand is given the client's opinion is why you think it is (and has been) outside IR35.