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HMRC win an IR35 appeal

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    #11
    Originally posted by Fred Bloggs View Post
    Have to honest here and say that I can't see any possibility of anyone working for the BBC really being self employed. Turn up at a set time every week. Read the script given to you every week. At a set time and place every week. Delivered over fifteen minutes exactly at the same time each week at the studio of the BBC's choice. No scope for doing anything your own way or making the show more efficient to your own benefit. Zero business risk. 100% cannot send in a substitute etc.... How much further inside IR35 is it possible to be?
    Ahem...... Lorraine Kelly...... ahem.......
    See You Next Tuesday

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      #12
      Originally posted by Lance View Post
      Ahem...... Lorraine Kelly...... ahem.......
      She had a Right of Substitution clause and a ready-made replacement on standby

      Comment


        #13
        Originally posted by Fred Bloggs View Post
        Have to honest here and say that I can't see any possibility of anyone working for the BBC really being self employed. Turn up at a set time every week. Read the script given to you every week. At a set time and place every week. Delivered over fifteen minutes exactly at the same time each week at the studio of the BBC's choice. No scope for doing anything your own way or making the show more efficient to your own benefit. Zero business risk. 100% cannot send in a substitute etc.... How much further inside IR35 is it possible to be?
        100% agree.

        Originally posted by Paralytic View Post
        She had a Right of Substitution clause and a ready-made replacement on standby

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          #14
          And she worked for itv

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            #15
            Originally posted by Anonimouse View Post
            And she worked for itv
            Good call.
            The point still stands. If you have evidence to demonstrate you're not an employee, as well as a contract that supports it, then you're good. The client is irrelevant.
            See You Next Tuesday

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              #16
              Forced to use PSC

              I have seen stated that se was forced by the BBC to work through a limited company. I would not have thought BBC forced her to pay a low salary and high dividends. She could have paid all income as employment earnings and paid Tax / NICs accordingly.

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                #17
                Not sure if this means the BBC may actually help out in cases like this? Or if it's just for cases post IR35 reform.

                Our aim remains to settle the historic issues, at an acceptable cost to the licence fee payer, by resolving most of the retrospective claims that HMRC may have against the presenters or the BBC in respect of any
                classification of their employment status. The Board considers that a settlement option with either HMRC or individual presenters is in the best interests of the BBC, the licence fee payer, and the individuals involved and is likely to be both less costly and quicker to resolve. Should cases be resolved with individuals, any payments to, or on behalf of, presenters will only be made where there is a legitimate demand from HMRC and where the BBC can determine
                the amount due. This would be based on the difference of the tax that would be due under IR35 versus that which is due by the PSC and individual paying corporation and dividend tax. Within the 2018/19 BBC accounts, a provision of £12 million is included for such payments. The provision has been estimated by looking at all individuals affected and then applying assumptions, based on conversations with HMRC; recent tax tribunal rulings; and the advice of external advisors.
                Page 97
                BBC Group Annual Report and Accounts 2018/19

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                  #18
                  I actually think that would be a terrible waste of license fee money and very hard to justify.

                  As someone else has said, no one forced her to pay herself dividends vs PAYE and she has clearly not given much respect to IR35 at any point.
                  Last edited by dx4100; 30 October 2019, 10:43.

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                    #19
                    Originally posted by Lance View Post
                    Ahem...... Lorraine Kelly...... ahem.......
                    I think it would be a mistake to lump all TV presenters in together as clearly some presenters can command a lot more independence and control over others. The Lorraine Kelly case was particularly convincing to me (I read the judgement) despite the negative press she got about it over the whole "playing a character" thing (which was completely unrelated to IR35 anyway and was about the deductibility of her agent fees). She has a large degree of editorial control, flexibility over studio arrangements (she could broadcast from other locations if needed), could take time off and send in a substitute etc. Completely different situation to somebody who turns up to a studio each week, reads an autocue and does what they are told to do.

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                      #20
                      Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer View Post
                      I think it would be a mistake to lump all TV presenters in together as clearly some presenters can command a lot more independence and control over others. The Lorraine Kelly case was particularly convincing to me (I read the judgement) despite the negative press she got about it over the whole "playing a character" thing (which was completely unrelated to IR35 anyway and was about the deductibility of her agent fees). She has a large degree of editorial control, flexibility over studio arrangements (she could broadcast from other locations if needed), could take time off and send in a substitute etc. Completely different situation to somebody who turns up to a studio each week, reads an autocue and does what they are told to do.
                      Indeed. But the suggestion was that TV presenters are clearly all inside.
                      That's like saying that clearly all IT people are inside.
                      See You Next Tuesday

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