A Sad “IR35” Day

[hammertime1985]

Take it.

I've been in places where the contractor bunked off the last four weeks through 'illness'.

BITD I would have been more professional - but it's a dog eat dog world out there and if the clients are doing this I would cut my losses on not getting my last invoice paid and leave.

just done this myself. If you're on good terms with the client simply state in light of your decision I have found an opportunity elsewhere which is outside and I have advised them I'm starting in two weeks. I hope you don't mind.

[BABABlackSheep]

Take it.

I've been in places where the contractor bunked off the last four weeks through 'illness'.

BITD I would have been more professional - but it's a dog eat dog world out there and if the clients are doing this I would cut my losses on not getting my last invoice paid and leave.

Current place pays weekly..

Not got anything yet, but I have to give a short notice period to get an interview.

If I get a sniff of anything in the present market, going to take it.

[sal]

Meanwhile, given the nature of my opening post. I'll ask my "new" friends on here

What would you do, if you worked for one of the major banks who have just told everyone to go permie or go home, if you had another contract offer, but they wanted you to start in less than 2 weeks' whilst you are on a 4 week contract termination?

I wold take it and depending on relationship with the hiring manager at old ClientCo either be frank up front or serve 4 weeks notice and claim unavailability in the last 2 weeks. If they are trowing my under the IR35 bus I won't mind burning bridges etc. What comes around - goes around.

I have a duty to my shareholder

[AndrewK]

Wow this thread grew legs quickly

As someone who has previously worked for a consultancy(was IBM) for a long time, and have indeed been charged out to clients at stupid prices whilst there, and very familiar with WiPro and TSC as I work with them right now I can give my honest opinion.

Back in the day, the offshore model was absolutely terrible, and the standard of work was poor. However, lately, with my onshore colleagues, for especially development and testing, I've seen them do some fantastic work.

Personally, I'm a BA(clue in the name). One of the reasons I moved from more a technical infrastructure to Business Analysis career, is I saw the writing on the wall with the consultancies business model, but I didn't see that moving into the softer more business focused roles, mainly because of cultural differences. In other words, their BA's and PM's to a large extend I've not seen many of, and the the one's I have, I've not been that impressed. Solution Architects, I'm on the fence with. Some good, some not so good.

I haven't seen many ex IBMers/Cognizant/... who would say, you know we were/are all tools.

In my experience situation in the last 15 years hasn't improved at all.
Current project IBM infrastructure support - crap, Infosys developers - complete joke. Managed to do nothing in 6 months.
In the last project Cognizant developers - I was surprised they knew how to turn a computer on. Complete tools. Poster boys of outsourcing. It took 4 developers 2 weeks to do 2-hour job.
I would say it is now even worse. Younger generation of millennials don't even pretend they care. 0 motivation. I could go on and on.
I do not recall any good experience with any of the mentioned companies in last 15 years.
Like in any large corporation, they probably have some bright people somewhere. But they are hiding them very well.

[SussexSeagull]

Offshore consultancies are great up to the point your Business Expert changes their mind half way through the project and they quote how much more they will charge to change the system.

The banks are doing it as a way to cut contractor costs and the minute one did the rest were going to follow. Time will tell what it does for delivery but as I don't see them make up the shortfall with permanent employees I can see a stand off for a few months.

[Nut]

Training others is a big part of being a contractor. Take that extension.

This.

I've always had it been a bit of a selling point on my CV regarding training and/or mentoring of team members as part of the service i've provided. Several previous gigs have been extended solely on the basis of their permie staff needing more training/handover and generally speaking i've taken it.

[BABABlackSheep]

This.

I've always had it been a bit of a selling point on my CV regarding training and/or mentoring of team members as part of the service i've provided. Several previous gigs have been extended solely on the basis of their permie staff needing more training/handover and generally speaking i've taken it.

Thanks for the people who have mentioned this. Updated my cv now to reflect.

Currently the decision is with the client, but they are not rushing to tell me the outcome.

I'm in limbo with agencies as they aren't promoting my cv as my end-date is still "negotiable" and they are only putting people forward who can start "immediately". Its a buyers market out there.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I have raised the question of post a April engagement at current gig as they are talking about a six month extension after Christmas. Clientco are very ignorant of the rules and think they are completely devoid of any responsibility and the agency will do all work and take all risks. Agency are saying pretty much the same, in reverse about clientco. It’s not encouraging.


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[BABABlackSheep]

Update

Rather than start a new thread(and because there's some great advice in here), thought I would do an update.

My current situation recap and update:

Same client, been here years, Outside IR35, but client has stated that no IR35 determinations.. no limited contractors, so I'm off.
I took a short extension that is now coming to an end at the end of Feb. No way I'm staying on an inside IR35 umbrella contract after such a long time

I've now managed to secure a contract with another (large)client which I'm delighted about as the market is terrible, its a better rate so even if its inside IR35 I've taken it with glee.

The new client has promised they will determine inside or outside before I start, and I believe them as they are currently in the process of informing all their contractors, and I have another month yet before I move.

So...

my question..given my length of time with existing client..and I have a significant amount of funds in my business

If my new gig is inside IR35 I'm going umbrella, and MVL'ing my company.

If they determine its outside IR35, would you still close ltd company, take out the money via ER on MVL and draw a line under the ltd company being with one client for a long time?

Or stay outside, risk it, and continue to take the increased money through same ltd company?

[eek]

Rather than start a new thread(and because there's some great advice in here), thought I would do an update.

My current situation recap and update:

Same client, been here years, Outside IR35, but client has stated that no IR35 determinations.. no limited contractors, so I'm off.
I took a short extension that is now coming to an end at the end of Feb. No way I'm staying on an inside IR35 umbrella contract after such a long time

I've now managed to secure a contract with another (large)client which I'm delighted about as the market is terrible, its a better rate so even if its inside IR35 I've taken it with glee.

The new client has promised they will determine inside or outside before I start, and I believe them as they are currently in the process of informing all their contractors, and I have another month yet before I move.

So...

my question..given my length of time with existing client..and I have a significant amount of funds in my business

If my new gig is inside IR35 I'm going umbrella, and MVL'ing my company.

If they determine its outside IR35, would you still close ltd company, tale out the money via ER on MVL and draw a line under the ltd company being with one client for a long time?

Or stay outside, risk it, and continue to take the increased money through same ltd company?

You can't MVL if you remain in business doing the same thing.

It's fine to MVL if going permanent.

Probably fine (with some small proviso's regarding returning to contracting within 2 years) if you go via an umbrella.

A complete no no to use ER if you are starting up again immediately.