I am way outside IR35 - I think

**simes** · 4 December 2018, 14:33

Originally posted by ravenscroft View Post

I work direct for end Client. There is no Contract/PO. I (Ltd Company) Invoice every month - roughly same number. I have occasionally done other work for other Clients.
It is a large organisation. I work on various IT Projects within the Organisation and have complete control, timing etc. I make the suggestions, internally sell the solution(s) and deliver it.
Internal IT are next to useless (but trust me) and the Business rely on me to solve their problems.
I have traveled to their other offices and just pay for flights etc and add expenses onto Invoice.
They have supplied a laptop - because of not allowing BYO to connect to network - think is normal now anyway.
I have been 'working' like this for many years. I go in to the Client site maybe once a week at most (not because I have too) - but less so in the summer

I can best describe it as an InHouse Consultant.
I have the Ltd Company Insurances
This is way outside IR35 right?

As a side note I pay myself a high salary (Not the normal minimum+ divi). Reason for this is historical in that don't want to suddenly change as I am sure this is the sort of trigger that HMRC look for - but I have nothing to hide, just don't want the hassle.

This is really a sense check as the HMRC landscape has changed and will be changing more it would seem in the next year or so.
Thanks

Dipping my toe in this murky water, I would say yes, you are way out.

I almost stopped reading after you said there was no Contract or PO. I would figure that leave you outside all on its own.

**GreenMirror** · 4 December 2018, 14:36

Why not get IR35 insurance anyway? Why take the risk?

**MonkeysUncle** · 4 December 2018, 15:53

I would say you were outside...but a more pressing matter is that there is no contract/PO.

Is there any sort of written agreement between you and the client?

**northernladuk** · 4 December 2018, 17:15

Originally posted by simes View Post

Dipping my toe in this murky water, I would say yes, you are way out.

I almost stopped reading after you said there was no Contract or PO. I would figure that leave you outside all on its own.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

**northernladuk** · 4 December 2018, 17:19

Bearing in mind you haven't put many of the key IR35 factors in their, I'd suggest you go to QDOS and get a professional opinion on your working practices.

We can attempt to give you a bit of a warm cuddle but you are rely on complete strangers to give you their opinions with no qualification of how much we know. For example, it might look like Simes has a clue what he is talking about. Spend a few 10's of pounds and get a proper review IMO.

**ravenscroft** · 4 December 2018, 17:23

Originally posted by MonkeysUncle View Post

I would say you were outside...but a more pressing matter is that there is no contract/PO.

Is there any sort of written agreement between you and the client?

There is no written agreement.
Its a bit chaotic there and there is so much to do where we just agree with how to deal with the most pressing business matter at that point in time - then it changes again

Yeah I am coming to the conclusion that I am way outside
Thanks

**PerfectStorm** · 5 December 2018, 09:21

Depends what you've been doing 'In House' for years

**Patrick@Intouch** · 5 December 2018, 09:48

Have you considered the three main factors that determine status under IR35? What knowledge do you have of them and have you considered how integrated you are with the business and their workforce?

All of these are points that should be addressed in any serious conversation about your status. Also, with the changes coming in 2020 have you consulted your client for their opinion on your status? As you've been there a while that could be particularly pertinent.

**doconline** · 5 December 2018, 09:56

Sounds like you are outside from what you have said. How does your invoicing work though? You say there isn't a contract or PO or anything written down? I'd be changing that and also having the conversation about 2020 and how the client views your status. Also, you make no mention of the 24 month rule, but you do say you have been there years and are getting expenses paid by the client. Presumably this is all done with the 24 month rule in mind?

Also, you mention you take a high salary, so I would think you wouldn't be particularly low hanging fruit for HMRC as you will already be paying a larger chunk of Tax / NI's etc anyway?

I am way outside IR35 - I think