Originally posted by SueEllen
View Post
- Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
- Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!
Expense queries for Ltd company (no accountant)
Collapse
X
-
-
Originally posted by vwdan View PostI'll try and find them (unless you have the link?) but we all know HMRC have a habit of publishing what they think the law should be, as opposed to what it actually is.
They are good bed time reading material if you have difficultly sleeping."You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JRComment
-
Originally posted by SueEllen View PostSee post 4 of this thread.
They are good bed time reading material if you have difficultly sleeping.
On the contrary, it seems pretty clear that if you're buying food & drink during (and to consume within) a qualifying journey then it's almost certainly allowed.
Interestingly enough, I've had heat from this forum regarding lunches whereas that document uses lunch as a specific allowed example even if you're not staying away.Last edited by vwdan; 29 March 2017, 09:14.Comment
-
I wouldn't place too much emphasis on booklet 481/490 - remember this is HMRC's interpretation of the law, rather than the law itself.
If you meet the criteria to claim expenses under the 24 month rule, you can claim travel, subsistence and accommodation expenditure.
I think it is, therefore, reasonable to claim ingredients for breakfasts, lunches and evening meals if you are living in rented accommodation. That being said, I ALWAYS tell my clients to get a separate receipt for the subsistence expenditure incurred while working away from home. i.e. booze, fags etc. should be bought separately!Comment
-
Originally posted by vwdan View PostSo, I'm looking at page 37 on that 490 leaflet and I'm still not seeing anything to back up the idea that cooking is treated differently. It's very clear that you can't make a sandwich at HOME and then claim it, even though you may be able to claim a sandwich from a petrol station on that day but I'm still seeing nothing special about rented accommodation having a kitchen, or "meals" vs "cooking"
"With regards to accommodation and subsistence, it comes down to what are necessary business purchases – it depends on your accommodation whilst you’re contracting away from home with regards to what you can claim. For example if you’re renting an apartment with a kitchen facility then you’re able to make breakfast, lunch and dinner as you usually would at home and therefore would not be claimable through your limited company. If you were staying in a hotel then the likelihood would be that you’d need to eat out and therefore breakfast, lunch and dinner would be claimable through your limited company."
AccountingWeb cites the case of FTT in Tim Healy with the following statement:
"In this case Mr Healy has rented a flat. I do not find that expenditure on subsistence in a flat can be treated as incidental to the rental of that flat in the same way as expenditure on food in a hotel where one is resident."
For the tax savings involved, it's not worth the risk imho.The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't existComment
-
Originally posted by LondonManc View PostFrom ContractorWeekly, by Graeme Bennett of Forbes Young Accountancy:
"With regards to accommodation and subsistence, it comes down to what are necessary business purchases – it depends on your accommodation whilst you’re contracting away from home with regards to what you can claim. For example if you’re renting an apartment with a kitchen facility then you’re able to make breakfast, lunch and dinner as you usually would at home and therefore would not be claimable through your limited company. If you were staying in a hotel then the likelihood would be that you’d need to eat out and therefore breakfast, lunch and dinner would be claimable through your limited company."
AccountingWeb cites the case of FTT in Tim Healy with the following statement:
"In this case Mr Healy has rented a flat. I do not find that expenditure on subsistence in a flat can be treated as incidental to the rental of that flat in the same way as expenditure on food in a hotel where one is resident."
For the tax savings involved, it's not worth the risk imho.
The second is self employed so a different set of rules completely. Totally understand the risk adverse point of view, but I'm really keen to get to the bottom of this.
Edit: Again, important to remember the law is completely different for self employed people, but here's some interesting commentary:
http://www.rossmartin.co.uk/sme-tax-...modation-costs
The issue wasn't how he was eating or what - the query was whether any of his expenses were deductable. The key problem being this:
Mr Healy's admission that when choosing his accommodation, the consideration of chosing accommodation with the intention of having his guests to stay was the single factor that sealed his fate.
Found the final thing in full for anyone very bored:
https://www.pumptax.com/wp-content/u...ley28.5.15.pdfLast edited by vwdan; 29 March 2017, 09:58.Comment
-
Genuine question. Have you asked your accountant about this and what did they say?
I really don't think you are going to get a solid answer to this so you are going to have to make a decision based on the risk to you.
For me it comes down to two factors to make a single conclusion.
HMRC rules say “everyone must eat in order to live and such costs are normal costs of living incurred by all and not incurred for the purpose of trading”
What this means is that because you derive some personal benefit from eating (you eat to stay alive) and you’re not eating just to do your job, the cost of food and drink is not wholly and exclusively for the purpose of your business and can’t be included as an allowable business cost.
If you are talking eating out because you work long hours or you can't cook because it's too inconvenient (like a shared house or AirBnB) then I'd be happy to claim that. By being away from home it costs me more to live so I'd claim it.
Bearing in mind non of our accountants have posted I'd be interested to see what yours says.
To be fair though, if you are so hell bent on an answer then I'd say claim it if you want to and argue it later and then just carry on.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
-
Genuine question. Have you asked your accountant about this and what did they say?
The main thing for me is that I can't see anything in any of the rules to indicate that there is a legal difference between eating out vs making your own food. The examples given by HMRC appear to be very deliberate in making a point against making food at HOME, i.e., prior to your allowable journey commencing - rather than it being a point about the type of food itself.
Lots of people comment on it, but none of it seems to be rooted in fact.
And you're right, I am hellbent on getting to the bottom of it and it kind of frustrates me that, for a forum normally so fussy about the rules everyone just seems to huff on this one and call it quits!Last edited by vwdan; 29 March 2017, 11:08.Comment
-
Always been an interesting one.
I have known perm consultants renting their own accommodation and they used to submit expenses of this nature, from supermarkets, all the time.
There didn't seem any problem with claiming it in this scenario.The Chunt of Chunts.Comment
-
Originally posted by MrMarkyMark View PostAlways been an interesting one.
I have known perm consultants renting their own accommodation and they used to submit expenses of this nature, from supermarkets, all the time.
There didn't seem any problem with claiming it in this scenario.The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't existComment
- Home
- News & Features
- First Timers
- IR35 / S660 / BN66
- Employee Benefit Trusts
- Agency Workers Regulations
- MSC Legislation
- Limited Companies
- Dividends
- Umbrella Company
- VAT / Flat Rate VAT
- Job News & Guides
- Money News & Guides
- Guide to Contracts
- Successful Contracting
- Contracting Overseas
- Contractor Calculators
- MVL
- Contractor Expenses
Advertisers
Contractor Services
CUK News
- Streamline Your Retirement with iSIPP: A Solution for Contractor Pensions Sep 1 09:13
- Making the most of pension lump sums: overview for contractors Sep 1 08:36
- Umbrella company tribunal cases are opening up; are your wages subject to unlawful deductions, too? Aug 31 08:38
- Contractors, relabelling 'labour' as 'services' to appear 'fully contracted out' won't dupe IR35 inspectors Aug 31 08:30
- How often does HMRC check tax returns? Aug 30 08:27
- Work-life balance as an IT contractor: 5 top tips from a tech recruiter Aug 30 08:20
- Autumn Statement 2023 tipped to prioritise mental health, in a boost for UK workplaces Aug 29 08:33
- Final reminder for contractors to respond to the umbrella consultation (closing today) Aug 29 08:09
- Top 5 most in demand cyber security contract roles Aug 25 08:38
- Changes to the right to request flexible working are incoming, but how will contractors be affected? Aug 24 08:25
Comment