Problematic flights to conference and expenses

[concord]

Hi all,

I'm going to a conference in a small European city and I planned on arriving the night before and leaving the morning after the event.

Unfortunately, there are no direct flights on those days. There are direct flights, however, on the days before and after I planned to arrive/depart.

Can I still expense the flight and extra hotel nights? I would stay in a cheaper hotel that isn't at the venue and the direct flight is less expensive.

If I can't expense the hotel, can I still expense the flights?

I don't really mind paying for it myself if it's a problem. Also, there are connecting flights on the days I'm supposed to go but the journey times are longer and/or inconvenient.

Thanks!

[northernladuk]

Let's assume you are being completely open and honest with what is going on.....

What makes you think you can't claim? As long as you aren't taking the piss and they are genuinely the only flights that are convenient to get there then it can't be anything but Wholly and Exclusively. There is the extra time there that isn't working so you could argue BiK but you aren't staying there to have a day out. You are having to stay because it's the only thing that suits your flight. I'd say you are good for both hotel and flight.

You can also ask your accountant of course who may not only answer your question but give you some insight in the expenses that might allow you to answer anything that pops up like this in the future.

But IANAA and I'm in a good mood.

[Darren at Fox-Bartfield]

Happy Pills

Thanks very polite and concise of you NLUK, been on the happy pills?

[Pondlife]

Since NLUK is in an uncharacteristically good mood I'll ask.

What makes a connecting flight so inconvenient that it means losing two (billable?) days of your life is more attractive?

Or is it a case of fly out Monday, spend Tuesday seeing the sights, Wed conference, Thursday on the beach, fly home Friday suitably relaxed and ready for the weekend?

Why would you stay at a hotel that isn't near the venue if the trip is wholly & exclusively for work?

I travel a lot. Personally, I like to get my arse back on my own sofa ASAP. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of being somewhere new and if you want to turn the trip into a bit of a citybreak then do so. But if you're framing the question in a way to get an answer you want to hear, it's a pretty worthless answer IMHO.

[Lance]

Can I still expense the flight and extra hotel nights? I would stay in a cheaper hotel that isn't at the venue and the direct flight is less expensive.

I would say yes you can. As long as if you are face to face with HMRC and they challenge whether it's wholly and exclusively for business you can look them in the eye, say 'Yes' and be able to prove the lack of alternative flights.

Although I'd stay in the same hotel, and spend the 'lost' day 'working' from the hotel room.

[MrMarkyMark]

Thanks very polite and concise of you NLUK, been on the happy pills?

I believe he was out last night

[concord]

Wow, a lot of skepticism! I actually just visited this city while on holiday in July. It's very small and while pretty, I did enough sightseeing.

There are connecting flights but there are two issues. First, the one good deal I found is on an airline I hadn't heard of and the equipment being used for the flights is quite old. Second, the other flights are longer and they are more expensive. Neither of these issues are insurmountable but this is why I asked. It's a matter of comfort and convenience.

The plan would be to work from the hotel during the day. The reason for using a different hotel is that it saves the company money because it's cheaper and if I change the existing reservation, the price will go up. Again, the city is small so the hotels are very close to each other.

I assume when you're not doing business activities, for example, at night, you can walk around the city? I don't mean expensing anything but I'm assuming when the conference isn't in session or I'm not working, I don't need to be shut up in the hotel room?

Finally, my accountant has been missing for the last two weeks so I signed up for this forum, but that is another matter.

Thanks!

[dingdong]

I think HMRC have far easier targets to go after than questioning people on the logic of using a connecting flight or not for one particular business trip.

I suspect in most cases they don't need to go any further than the supervision, direction and control questions

[northernladuk]

Wow, a lot of skepticism! I actually just visited this city while on holiday in July. It's very small and while pretty, I did enough sightseeing.

That's because nearly every thread we get like this starts unravelling about post 5 or 6. His wife will suddenly come in to the picture, or the poster will be there for the weekend etc. They ask because they know it's complicated because there is a personal interest and just look for a right answer. Others in your situation would know this is pure business and not need to ask. You situation looks cut and dried to me.

Of course you can wander round the city after you finished work and I'm sure you can expense a meal. You are still there for the purpose of business.

[Lance]

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...anual/eim31960