Can someone please clarify rules around subsistence - meal allowance

[SlipTheJab]

I've started a few months ago my first contract away from home, and since then having lunch in one of the pubs near the client. I pay around £15-20 with my business card (normally two courses and a drink). Thought it was OK, but after reading this thread, and talking to an accountant this morning it looks like i have to be worried. He even mentioned that "HMRC allows you to claim a lunch expense within reason, ie a sandwich and a drink for maybe a maximum of £5".

what a misery they are promoting! people in front of their computers with the bag of crisps, sandwich and coke,..

£20 quid a day for lunch! Have you not considered a jacket potato or a sandwich instead, what's for dinner BTW, Lobster and Caviar washed down with a bottle of Champagne

[northernladuk]

Despite what CP says I'm struggling to believe HMRC won't find this excessive. It's 4 times the scale rates and amounts to £1600 per 3 month gig. I'd guess the national average for lunches is around 3 quid a day taking home made lunches as zero cost so £20 every day can't be anything but excessive.

Then there is the issue of why are you spending 1600 quid on lunch, most of which comes out of your own pocket and then there is the fact you are going to be giving FLC a run (or shuffle) for his money after a couple of months.

IMO key to making working away from home work is to get a good routine early. If you take the easy option it becomes difficult to scale it back or change it later who h is likely to make you miserable.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I can't disagree that £20/day every day is excessive from a money-saving perspective but from a tax perspective:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...anual/eim31835

Where the travel arrangements are unusually lavish you should consider whether, on the facts of the case, the expenditure is genuinely attributable to business travel or is, for example, some sort of reward.

However, you should not refuse a deduction for the actually incurred cost of a journey, hotel room or meal simply because a less expensive alternative is available.

That, to me, is fairly straightforward but I accept it would be down to the discretion of an inspector if they were looking at your expense claims. As I said before, I think the sort of thing they are looking for here is whether you're eating at a fancy restaurant every day, buying a bottle of wine etc. I don't think a typical pub lunch (which in central London could easily be £15-20 with a drink) would fail this test but that's my opinion - expensive yes, but unusually lavish? Not sure what sort of pub food you have in mind.

The reason HMRC do have published limits for dispensations (now exemptions) is because these expenses largely go unchecked and unreported so it makes sense to try and limit those claims.

Certainly, ignoring the tax side of things if I was working on-site 5 days a week I'd be looking at trying to reduce my lunch costs. I've paid £15 for lunch working in central London before but then I generally only work the odd day on-site so don't really worry about it. My average lunch spend was typically around £10/day and I rarely, if ever, bothered claiming for any other subsistence (e.g. grabbing a snack/coffee on the way into work if I skipped breakfast).

[SuperLooper]

Two-course meal + drink in a pub every day for lunch.

OP will need to be buying bigger trousers for the expanding waistline. Can he expense them too?

[dingdong]

I'm not sure anyone in London would survive on a 3 quid lunch. I go to tesco and one measly salad, some turkey slices and some fruit comes to 8 quid.

Commuting 1.5 hours each way means I invariably need a mid morning snack and a late afternoon sandwich so I easily end up at 15 to 20 quid a day when I'm not enjoying anything remotely luxurious!

[SueEllen]

I'm not sure anyone in London would survive on a 3 quid lunch. I go to tesco and one measly salad, some turkey slices and some fruit comes to 8 quid.

Commuting 1.5 hours each way means I invariably need a mid morning snack and a late afternoon sandwich so I easily end up at 15 to 20 quid a day when I'm not enjoying anything remotely luxurious!

All the supermarkets do a lunch deal which is sandwich/large roll/salad/small roll, crisps and a drink for £3. The fruit is a rip off.

[psychocandy]

I recently got this advice from my accountant. Not a, you can't more a shouldn't.
"you shouldn’t really be claiming the lunch if you are travelling back and forth from your home. From HMRC’s perspective this is something which you could bring yourself from home."

But thats like an employer who sends you away on business saying, take your own food with you we're not paying for it. And take a tent with you because you'd be sleeping anyway so we're paying for a hotel.

[psychocandy]

Grey area I reckon. Is it a pisstake claiming for lunch when you'd eat it anyway? Course it is. Is a pisstake claiming 45pm per mile for your commute when the permie next to you cant do the same. Course it is.

[eek]

All the supermarkets do a lunch deal which is sandwich/large roll/salad/small roll, crisps and a drink for £3. The fruit is a rip off.

+1 when working in London bridge tesco's sandwich deal was available. M&S however had added a blooming large London weighting and boots was £3.79 rather than £3.29

[northernladuk]

Grey area I reckon. Is it a pisstake claiming for lunch when you'd eat it anyway? Course it is. Is a pisstake claiming 45pm per mile for your commute when the permie next to you cant do the same. Course it is.

Rather an odd statement for someone that's willing to take the piss claiming JSA and then defending it to the hilt that he can do it cause it's in the rules.

I also don't agree with either sentiment as I travel much further (and often staying away for work) which a permie wouldn't. We work a different model which means different things are acceptable for us that aren't for permies. It was a pretty core argument of the T&S defence so I'm glad you weren't part of it with that statement.