Very worrying - the expenses thing

[ndoody]

I have a question about this expense stuff.

Is it just about the expenses that people claim back for going to/from a single place of work? i.e. a 6 month contract in London for barclays say, then you claim expenses for going down mon-fri and staying over?

How about if you're working for a company, and that "normal place of work" or "the office" was in one place...but that company actually sends you to various client sites which could be sometimes 3-4 different clients in one week. Are they also saying we have to pay tax on those expenses? That would just blow, because surely even a permy doesn't have to pay any tax on expenses reimbursed for visiting different sites.

My job involves never going to the actual companies office, because they do send me all over country/world to all their various client sites. Jesus if I was taxed on some of the expenses occurred leaving the country I'd probably end up having to pay out just to work.

[northernladuk]

I have a question about this expense stuff.

Is it just about the expenses that people claim back for going to/from a single place of work? i.e. a 6 month contract in London for barclays say, then you claim expenses for going down mon-fri and staying over?

How about if you're working for a company, and that "normal place of work" or "the office" was in one place...but that company actually sends you to various client sites which could be sometimes 3-4 different clients in one week. Are they also saying we have to pay tax on those expenses? That would just blow, because surely even a permy doesn't have to pay any tax on expenses reimbursed for visiting different sites.

My job involves never going to the actual companies office, because they do send me all over country/world to all their various client sites. Jesus if I was taxed on some of the expenses occurred leaving the country I'd probably end up having to pay out just to work.

A little piece of information missing. Are you claiming this back from the client or are you claiming it from the tax man?

[ndoody]

A little piece of information missing. Are you claiming this back from the client or are you claiming it from the tax man?

Well, I incur expenses...then tot them up and just invoice the client for the full amount + VAT, which goes to my limited company.

Then I enter the expenses into my JSA portal individually for my own limited company onto my personal expenses account, and my limited company reimburses me in full.


I don't think I claim anything back from the tax man, per say...just that the limited company pays me everything back that I incur going to the various client sites of my client and I don't pay any tax on that reimbursed money.

Excuse me if it sounds a bit "noobish" I just operate pretty simply over the years without having a full understanding and just going by how my accountant usually advises.

[northernladuk]

Well, I incur expenses...then tot them up and just invoice the client for the full amount + VAT, which goes to my limited company.

Then I enter the expenses into my JSA portal individually for my own limited company onto my personal expenses account, and my limited company reimburses me in full.


I don't think I claim anything back from the tax man, per say...just that the limited company pays me everything back that I incur going to the various client sites of my client and I don't pay any tax on that reimbursed money.

Excuse me if it sounds a bit "noobish" I just operate pretty simply over the years without having a full understanding and just going by how my accountant usually advises.

What sounds noobish (too say the least) is your lack of understanding about how your company works and understand legislations that affect it. You say you don't claim anything back from the tax man. This whole issue is about the expenses you do claim from the tax man I. E. The stuff your client doesn't reimburse you for. Maybe now you can work out your answer.

It's hardly any wonder contracting is ****ed.

P. s. Same client for a couple of years? You're up to speed with IR35?

[ndoody]

What sounds noobish (too say the least) is your lack of understanding about how your company works and understand legislations that affect it. You say you don't claim anything back from the tax man. This whole issue is about the expenses you do claim from the tax man I. E. The stuff your client doesn't reimburse you for. Maybe now you can work out your answer.

It's hardly any wonder contracting is ****ed.

P. s. Same client for a couple of years? You're up to speed with IR35?

I've been working for this client for probably 6 out of the last 8 years. However, I've been in their office all of around 10 times during the whole time.

I'm subcontracted to be sent out to their customers, other companies. Sent with a fixed statement of work and key deliverables for every project(often very short term), of which there are multiple projects and customers. Whilst on the end customer sites they've no right to supervise me and/or dictate what I do because their contract is with my client, who subcontract the work to me.

I don't have any expenses to claim in regard to the site of the client I work for, but the multiple end customers of my client that are geographically located in various places I obviously do have expenses for. I invoice my client for expenses incurred whilst travelling / staying at their end customers sites and the money goes into my company bank account. Then I personally claim expenses from my company and pay no further tax.

I really have no answer as to whether my expenses are affected by this ruling or not, despite your extended effort to be most helpful.

[northernladuk]

The answer is no. This affects tax relief on travelling to put main client that we can't claim back. Your client is paying your expenses so nothing to do with the government.

[ndoody]

The answer is no. This affects tax relief on travelling to put main client that we can't claim back. Your client is paying your expenses so nothing to do with the government.

Thankyou. One minor detail, the client pays my limited company by way of a lump sum invoice...the total costs incurred for any given period + VAT. Then my limited company reimburses me personally, the client doesn't repay me personally.

[northernladuk]

Thankyou. One minor detail, the client pays my limited company by way of a lump sum invoice...the total costs incurred for any given period + VAT. Then my limited company reimburses me personally, the client doesn't repay me personally.

Of course. You did mention that earlier.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

ndoody - I wouldn't be so confident in your IR35 status on the basis of the relationship between you and your client's client as that is not relevant. Any IR35 investigation would focus solely on the relationship between you and YOUR client.

So you might be sent to out to your client's clients with a fixed statement of work and no D&C from the end client but I don't think that really matters. What is the relationship between you and your client? Can you choose which assignments you take on? Or do they say "go and work for this client" and you do it? Because on the face of it it sounds like the scope of the relationship between you and your client (who sound like an agency/consultancy) is quite broad, i.e. "Go and work on whatever project we need you to" and could be potentially caught.

If you have the right to refuse assignments or send a substitute then you shouldn't need to worry but has your contract been reviewed?

Regarding expenses these changes have no effect on how and what you bill your client, only on what you can claim back from YourCo without incurring tax.

[jamesbrown]

I wouldn't be so confident in your IR35 status on the basis of the relationship between you and your client's client as that is not relevant.

FWIW, it's judged against a hypothetical contract based on actual working practices. There's no reason this couldn't be benchmarked against the client at the end of the chain, if that's where the day-to-day working is done. The whole point is to look through whatever contractual arrangements may be in place to determine status relative to a hypothetical contract. Of course, in terms of where this is heading, SDC refers to the right to supervise, direct or control by any person. Bottom line, the totality of the arrangement needs to be considered, so I'm partly agreeing with you (but the very end client is relevant).