Out of contract due to renewal red tape. Invoice client directly?

**DaveB** · 14 April 2015, 06:41

Originally posted by ForBajor View Post

QUESTION: Can I bill the end client directly? I literally have no contract with anyone right now, but the client wants me on site no doubt.

Pitfalls? Risks? Unworkable?

No. You can't bill without a contract of some sort and you cant bill a govt department without having gone through the relevent procurement framework.

If you go onsite you are "Working at Risk", ie there is a risk that you work but wont get paid.

Having said that I've done PS contracts through Capita and this happened every time a renewal came up (every three months for 2.5 years).

It's your call as to whether you work or not. Are there any other contractors working their who have been through this on previsou renewals with that client?

**ForBajor** · 14 April 2015, 07:22

Originally posted by DaveB View Post

No. You can't bill without a contract of some sort and you cant bill a govt department without having gone through the relevent procurement framework.

If you go onsite you are "Working at Risk", ie there is a risk that you work but wont get paid.

Having said that I've done PS contracts through Capita and this happened every time a renewal came up (every three months for 2.5 years).

It's your call as to whether you work or not. Are there any other contractors working their who have been through this on previsou renewals with that client?

It's good to know it's not unusual actually. I will ask the other contractors what they think.

For you, how long did it take for the contracts to come through (beyond the start date) in the worst case?

**DaveB** · 14 April 2015, 07:27

Originally posted by ForBajor View Post

It's good to know it's not unusual actually. I will ask the other contractors what they think.

For you, how long did it take for the contracts to come through (beyond the start date) in the worst case?

Worst case was 6 weeks on a 3 month renewal

This was on a major PS project that had already been running for 3 years when I joined. It was purely down to the berocracy of getting signatures from people who were out of the office or just didnt understand what they were supposed to be doing.

**BlasterBates** · 14 April 2015, 07:38

If your agency have told you not to go on site, then there is no contract and you shouldn't go in.

I would phone the client and let him know.

A verbal OK from the agency in my view is the signal to resume, the contract would then appear in a few days. That's happened to me on a number of occasions. Rather take the very tiny risk and earn 400 or 500 a day than sit at home twiddling my thumbs.

**DaveB** · 14 April 2015, 07:44

Originally posted by BlasterBates View Post

If your agency have told you not to go on site, then there is no contract and you shouldn't go in.

I would phone the client and let him know.

A verbal OK from the agency in my view is the signal to resume, the contract would then appear in a few days. That's happened to me on a number of occasions. Rather take the very tiny risk and earn 400 or 500 a day than sit at home twiddling my thumbs.

The instruction not to go in is boiler plate text for Capita, they say it regardless of how long it might take to get sorted as they are just covering their arses so you cant try and get money out of them later. I'd actually listen to what the client says. If you trust the client and they say it will be a week or so then go wth that. If I'd listened to Capita every time an extension was late I'd have lost months of work and probably the gig in the end.

**psychocandy** · 14 April 2015, 08:11

Disagree with some of you on here. No contract = don't go in no matter what IMHO.

Verbal acceptance is also no good for me. Not suggesting it all needs to be done but an email at least.

Letting the client down? If they were that concerned they'd pull their finger out and get it sorted.

Happened to me with one client. Every single renewal. I'd hassle and hassle them for weeks, warn them, pack my stuff in the car but still they'd leave it until the last minute.

All became a bit clear one time when client manager had a bit of dig that I wouldn't accept a verbal ok off him and was a bit put out that I wouldn't take his word. I told him ok no problem just confirm this via email and we're good. Email never turned up of course.

In this instance, it did get sorted out a day later so I only lost one day but I think it proved that, the budget wasn't sorted at all, and if I'd gone in they wouldn't have rushed. Also, potentially they would have stitched me up weeks down the line if it was all canned and I wouldnt have got paid.

Wasnt helped this client by fellow contractor who just didnt bother asking for paperwork and just turned up every day.

**bracken** · 14 April 2015, 08:29

It's not unusual...

In my experience, it's not unusual for PS renewals to be late. My renewal through Capita from 1 April only came through the following week the main reason being is that the process is a complete 'ball-ache' and designed to thoroughly hack everyone off that's involved in it...

Client tells Capita they want to renew
Capita ask you
You agree to the renewal (I asked for a contract change in mine which was accepted but slowed things down a little)
Capita tell the client that you are renewing
Client raises Purchase Order (they don't seem to want to do this until they know you're going to renew)
Purchase Order gets approved to Capita
Capita send you out the formal renewal paperwork
You agree it

My advice is to get a sense from the end client whether a renewal is actually happening. If it is, it's low risk so maybe run the argument that your business insurance doesn't cover you to be on client premises without a contract but you're happy to work from home (cutting the lawn and topping up the tan) until the formal renewal comes through

B

**Murder1** · 14 April 2015, 13:17

Or to be more accurate with the shambles that is CL1:

Client tells Capita Business Services they wish to renew
CBS shuffle some paperwork
CBS tells your agent the client wish to renew
Your agent (if you're lucky) will tell you immediately the client wishes to renew
Your agent then tells CBS that you wish to renew
CBS pick their nose for a bit before telling the client you wish to renew
Client raises a PO
Client tells CBS that the PO is in place to invoice against
CBS now raise an internal work order (probably after some shuffling/picking etc) and this can take a week or two.
CBS inform your agent that the WO is in place
Agent now presents you with a contract which you sign and return.

As others have said it's not uncommon. I was told by the agent not to attend site, however I've worked a couple of times covering various lengths without a contract in place (I know, I know

).
It's a decision only you can make, and I made mine based on the fact the client were pulling their hair out with procurement and CBS and once sorted the contract was always going to be back dated.

I took the risk where as some wouldn't, and I'll be more proactive in the future to try and prevent it from happening again.

**psychocandy** · 14 April 2015, 14:05

Originally posted by bracken View Post

In my experience, it's not unusual for PS renewals to be late. My renewal through Capita from 1 April only came through the following week the main reason being is that the process is a complete 'ball-ache' and designed to thoroughly hack everyone off that's involved in it...

Client tells Capita they want to renew
Capita ask you
You agree to the renewal (I asked for a contract change in mine which was accepted but slowed things down a little)
Capita tell the client that you are renewing
Client raises Purchase Order (they don't seem to want to do this until they know you're going to renew)
Purchase Order gets approved to Capita
Capita send you out the formal renewal paperwork
You agree it

My advice is to get a sense from the end client whether a renewal is actually happening. If it is, it's low risk so maybe run the argument that your business insurance doesn't cover you to be on client premises without a contract but you're happy to work from home (cutting the lawn and topping up the tan) until the formal renewal comes through

B

Yes but the client/3rd party process is not your problem. Like I said, if someone will commit to something in writing like and email then I won't force the issue until the last signature is done.

If someone wont commit via email then neither will I.

Maybe I'd agree to WFH though... I did this once at previous client mentioned. Went home on the Thursday (last day of month). They phoned me 10am to say it was sorted - OK I'll WFH today then I said its too late now please sent me the email. This turned up at 1pm and they still tried to tell me I had to go in. Nope WFH or nothing today now - if you'd sorted this yesterday I'd be sat at my desk now.

Out of contract due to renewal red tape. Invoice client directly?