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  1. #391

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThebigMan View Post
    Hi @ TheFaQqer - I wasn't taking a piss or playing - that wasnt the intention at all. PS: I will look through this site to see the best forum to post comments. Many thanks.
    He meant I was taking the piss. If you have a question then it's best to start a new thread but before you do make sure you search the forums using the method in the sticky at the top of the FAQ/welcome. Most questions new people ask will have been done a number of times so youll be sure to get some answers from them.
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  2. #392

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    That's because newbies aren't allowed PM rights off the bat so they don't come on and start spamming everyone. You are going to up your post count by posting questions on here to get access to your PM's.
    In the meantime though don't forget your IPSE+ Membership.

    And to get your PI/PL insurance, contract checks and if you feel you need it TLC35 insurance from QDOS

    HTH
    Hi @ northernladuk- OK. Quite understandable. Thanks, appreciated.

  3. #393

    More time posting than coding

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0n1k3r View Post
    The only Government framework agreement that recruitment agencies can realistically sell to the Government under is the CL1 (Contingent Labour 1) framework that is managed by Capita alone. All others requires the supplier to take some sort of responsibility over what they supply, and that is quite alien to recruiters.

    Government agencies generally purchase a set number of days worked, while recruiters (and Capita) always buy a date range from the contractor (e.g. like a temporary employment agreement). E.g. the Government agency might buy 110 days (~6 months), but Capita & the recruitment agency they subcontract to might enter into an agreement that says 1 April to 30 September. If you're getting near the end of that term, they might realise that there is still a number of unused days on the purchase order, and offer you an extension.

    What they should instead do is contract with you for the same number of days worked, but they never appear to think that far.
    It would appear that is the case and for me is another reason why I think my time in the public sector is coming to a close.

    Apr 15, 2016 12:05 PM


    Department of Health 220 Working Days a Calendar Year Policy for Interim Managers and Specialist Contractors

    Commercial Delivery would like to remind everyone that, as per guidance note five on the final page of the Department of Health’s Professional Services Business Case, interim managers and specialist contractors must not work more than 220 days a calendar year, reduced pro rata for shorter contracts, e.g. 110 days in six calendar months. It is the responsibility of individual interim managers and specialist contractors, and their respective assignment managers, to manage this.

    Justification for any contract needing to exceed this limit must be provided in the Professional Services Business Case.

  4. #394

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    Default Anyone else doing a 'brexit'?

    So, got back from holiday to find out yesterday (brexit day) the contract renewal due at the end of June that I had left the agency to sort out with the client while I was away has been rejected.

    Talking to the client it turns out their HR department have said 'no' due to some 4 year limit imposed on them, and the first anyone knew of this limit outside of HR was when my 'handler' went to HR to sort out the extension paperwork.

    Not done an extensive search, I'm sure someone will be able to short cut it for me , but all I can see is some FTC rule where after 4 years one has to go permanent employee and not just FTC employee. Yet I definitely am not on an FTC contract with the agency. Maybe HR have it wrong, or are looking at some other public sector legislation, or my agent managed to keep me on my original contract with them and went FTC between agent and client at one of the renewals (not sure if that's even possible). My contract with the agency has been closer to 6 years even though some periods have been in effect dormant due to lack of project work but they kept the contract running knowing they'd need me back later.

    Anyway, not that fussed, been WFH 100% but only 1 or 2 days a week for last few months so was getting a bit bored and thinking of a new challenge, and while client needs me (if only to do a knowledge transfer or document certain things as I am the 'last contractor standing' that built several systems for them and none of the permies will be able to easily pick it all up quickly as they are 'snowed under with work') they couldn't guarantee more than a few days a week work in the coming months anyway, so it felt like it was winding down, just comes a bit abrupt for them if I 'do one'.

    So now I'm wondering whether to offer my services to Capita who the client is using to cover their needs where they don't have the manpower or skills, on some 'sell them the knowledge' basis so client still has access to me indirectly for anything they may struggle with during the next few months. At a higher consultant rate obviously. Anyone got experience of doing something like this?

    Though as I've just come back from a 2 week holiday they may realise I'm not that valuable as the place didn't crash and burn in my absence.
    Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

  5. #395

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobosapien View Post
    So, got back from holiday to find out yesterday (brexit day) the contract renewal due at the end of June that I had left the agency to sort out with the client while I was away has been rejected.

    Talking to the client it turns out their HR department have said 'no' due to some 4 year limit imposed on them, and the first anyone knew of this limit outside of HR was when my 'handler' went to HR to sort out the extension paperwork.

    Not done an extensive search, I'm sure someone will be able to short cut it for me , but all I can see is some FTC rule where after 4 years one has to go permanent employee and not just FTC employee. Yet I definitely am not on an FTC contract with the agency. Maybe HR have it wrong, or are looking at some other public sector legislation, or my agent managed to keep me on my original contract with them and went FTC between agent and client at one of the renewals (not sure if that's even possible). My contract with the agency has been closer to 6 years even though some periods have been in effect dormant due to lack of project work but they kept the contract running knowing they'd need me back later.

    Anyway, not that fussed, been WFH 100% but only 1 or 2 days a week for last few months so was getting a bit bored and thinking of a new challenge, and while client needs me (if only to do a knowledge transfer or document certain things as I am the 'last contractor standing' that built several systems for them and none of the permies will be able to easily pick it all up quickly as they are 'snowed under with work') they couldn't guarantee more than a few days a week work in the coming months anyway, so it felt like it was winding down, just comes a bit abrupt for them if I 'do one'.

    So now I'm wondering whether to offer my services to Capita who the client is using to cover their needs where they don't have the manpower or skills, on some 'sell them the knowledge' basis so client still has access to me indirectly for anything they may struggle with during the next few months. At a higher consultant rate obviously. Anyone got experience of doing something like this?

    Though as I've just come back from a 2 week holiday they may realise I'm not that valuable as the place didn't crash and burn in my absence.

    There doesn't need to be an "officlal rule". Some organisations have a set time limit on contractor use and rightly so IMO. 4 years is already a very long time. It's easy for us to say the opposite but paying x2 or 3x the salary of a perm long term is not great and neither is it great for perm staff moral.

  6. #396

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperZ View Post
    There doesn't need to be an "officlal rule". Some organisations have a set time limit on contractor use and rightly so IMO. 4 years is already a very long time. It's easy for us to say the opposite but paying x2 or 3x the salary of a perm long term is not great and neither is it great for perm staff moral.

    I suppose the reasoning behind their decision is not that important unless I wanted to try to convince them their rules were not appropriate for my situation, which I have no desire to get into with them.

    Apparently it's a directive from Department of BIS, which is why I put it in this thread rather than elsewhere in case anyone else comes across this while contacting in the public sector.

    I was already wondering whether to extend given the lack of work they have for me at the moment, the fact it has been so long a contract and about time I did something new, and the impending public sector upheaval from more rule changes April 2017 or sooner that may make it not worth the risk of trying to remain outside IR35 if they even give that choice come next April.

    As it stands I'm looking forward to the contract end date now it's almost definite it will be ending very soon. The only offer they have managed to come up for me so far is to go permie, which isn't going to happen. May have the summer off while I decide whether to try to get another contract (if there's any work post brexit if everything isn't on hold while the uncertainty ends) or spend (waste ) time on a plan B.

    Fortunately I have a decent war chest to tide me over as long as I want to remain out of the game, either by choice or otherwise.
    Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

  7. #397

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    Lo and behold despite them saying there was no way they could extend me, they've extended me for a couple of months.

    Not sure what may have changed at their end but maybe the risk to their business by not having time for a proper hand over of the stuff I've been doing overrules their departmental overlords.

    They did previously say there was risk of a £50k fine if they broke the rules. No idea what official rule/law that relates to but maybe they think it's worth it.
    Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

  8. #398

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobosapien View Post
    Lo and behold despite them saying there was no way they could extend me, they've extended me for a couple of months.

    Not sure what may have changed at their end but maybe the risk to their business by not having time for a proper hand over of the stuff I've been doing overrules their departmental overlords.

    They did previously say there was risk of a £50k fine if they broke the rules. No idea what official rule/law that relates to but maybe they think it's worth it.
    Keep your CV up to date. We've a few people extended past set dates and a couple of them have been canned shortly after. What you say about overruling is plain common sense but they can and do reverse it for no apparent reason. If you there against procedure you are in the lap the gods so don't be surprised if they pull the rug.
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  9. #399

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    Keep your CV up to date. We've a few people extended past set dates and a couple of them have been canned shortly after. What you say about overruling is plain common sense but they can and do reverse it for no apparent reason. If you there against procedure you are in the lap the gods so don't be surprised if they pull the rug.

    Good advice.

    I'm firmly into hand over and run mode as they've said the 2 months is for that purpose specifically, so if they change their minds it's them that will suffer if the handover is not completed. I was looking forward to a change a week ago when it seemed certain that was it, so I'll just keep that mentality and make plans for what I want to do next.

    The sooner I get out of this contract as far as upcoming rule changes affecting the public sector the better. I wonder if any of them will or could be retrospectively applied. . I have no intention of still being on the hook come next April with the likely storm that's coming to the public sector.

    As I told them when they wondered if I was interested in going permie, I cannot do that (even if I wanted to, which I don't) as I've positioned myself outside of IR35, got the QDos review of contract and working practices and an 'outside' decision from them, and the client's HR to accept it as proof I am not caught. So to then go permie doing pretty much the same type of work I would be risking HMRC saying all that's gone before is now up for grabs with a much easier fight from their side.
    Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

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