Loans from EBTs and other Trusts

[Freelancer1]

arrived in the IOM last night to 'check out' various Payroll companies and had the opportunity to be taken along by my host to a seminar provided this morning by KPMG - some interesting comments by KPMG's Harley Richards on the use of trusts - the "SEBT" Self Employed benefit Trust (looks like it may be the scheme propounded by Contracta)

But still need to know who is who and who is actually pulling the strings at that Co...will try and find out unless someone else on here already knows...

The contact details for the seminar speaker are:-
<mod snip>

P.s. Its a sunny day here and the sea is calm - is this a deception??

[Vallah]

arrived in the IOM last night to 'check out' various Payroll companies and had the opportunity to be taken along by my host to a seminar provided this morning by KPMG - some interesting comments by KPMG's Harley Richards on the use of trusts - the "SEBT" Self Employed benefit Trust (looks like it may be the scheme propounded by Contracta)

But still need to know who is who and who is actually pulling the strings at that Co...will try and find out unless someone else on here already knows...

The contact details for the seminar speaker are:-
<mod snip>

P.s. Its a sunny day here and the sea is calm - is this a deception??

Yes, a beautiful day over here. Harley's a very good speaker and really knows his stuff, as did Greg Jones, the bloke who came up with all the crap jokes at the start. Interesting to see KPMG coming up with various tax "planning" schemes.

[geoff from contracta IOM]

arrived in the IOM last night to 'check out' various Payroll companies and had the opportunity to be taken along by my host to a seminar provided this morning by KPMG - some interesting comments by KPMG's Harley Richards on the use of trusts - the "SEBT" Self Employed benefit Trust (looks like it may be the scheme propounded by Contracta)

But still need to know who is who and who is actually pulling the strings at that Co...will try and find out unless someone else on here already knows...

The contact details for the seminar speaker are:-
<mod snip>

P.s. Its a sunny day here and the sea is calm - is this a deception??

Feel free to contact me to discuss their is nothing whatsoever sinister as I would be happy to explain, our group has been around for over ten years providing payroll services to contractors

[Alan Jones]

Fees

Assuming:
(a) the "new" Sole Trader schemes all work on same basis i.e. Small Sole Trader payment with a "not an EBT" loan.
(b) promoters are not going to run off with your money - although they DO appear to have a legal right to do so (otherwise loans would be income and taxable)
(c) promoters will give the same level of support if scheme is investigated
(d) you have decided to join
THEN you may as well go for one with lowest fees.
Promoters are trying to obfuscate fees by quoting take home returns - typically 85%. Once you know your Sole Trader rate of pay then it is quite easy to calculate the fees.
So far I have seen fees vary between 7 and 15%. That is a difference of £8,000 per year for a £100k contractor.

[Vallah]

Assuming:
(b) promoters are not going to run off with your money - although they DO appear to have a legal right to do so (otherwise loans would be income and taxable)

You know that's not how the trusts work Alan, or at least you should do.

[geoff from contracta IOM]

Originally Posted by Alan Jones
Assuming:
(b) promoters are not going to run off with your money - although they DO appear to have a legal right to do so (otherwise loans would be income and taxable)

Vallah - You know that's not how the trusts work Alan, or at least you should do.

Trustees acting in the best interests of the beneficiaries mean anything Alan ?

[Alan Jones]

can promoters run-off with your money

Originally Posted by Alan Jones
Assuming:
(b) promoters are not going to run off with your money - although they DO appear to have a legal right to do so (otherwise loans would be income and taxable)
Vallah - You know that's not how the trusts work Alan, or at least you should do.
Trustees acting in the best interests of the beneficiaries mean anything Alan ?

FIRSTLY - there is a transaction which "pays/settles" the money into the trust. This transaction happens daily/weekly/monthly or anything inbetween. SO theoretically a scheme with 2000 contractors paid monthly could have a sum of money of approximately £25M in "limbo" at anytime i.e. monies NOT belonging to contractors and not paid into trust.

SECONDLY - in some scheme the contractors are NOT even beneficiaries WHICH means that promoters could probably walk away with circa £50m before the contractors realise whats happening.

Look guys you may be able to fool contractors BUT dont try to "pull wool over my eyes" as i know these schemes inside/out.

[Alan Jones]

Feel free to contact me to discuss their is nothing whatsoever sinister as I would be happy to explain, our group has been around for over ten years providing payroll services to contractors

Geoff, who is "our group".

[Vallah]

FIRSTLY - there is a transaction which "pays/settles" the money into the trust. This transaction happens daily/weekly/monthly or anything inbetween. SO theoretically a scheme with 2000 contractors paid monthly could have a sum of money of approximately £25M in "limbo" at anytime i.e. monies NOT belonging to contractors and not paid into trust.

SECONDLY - in some scheme the contractors are NOT even beneficiaries WHICH means that promoters could probably walk away with circa £50m before the contractors realise whats happening.

Look guys you may be able to fool contractors BUT dont try to "pull wool over my eyes" as i know these schemes inside/out.

Firstly - any money not paid into a trust can't then be paid out as a loan, so in that case, not sure how "although they DO appear to have a legal right to do so (otherwise loans would be income and taxable)" would be at all relevant. If a loan is made from a trust, the EBT company can't recall them.

Secondly, Not trying to pull the wool over yours or anybody else's eyes. I don't know what sort of crappy half arsed schemes you're talking about, but in any decent scheme, the contractors would of course be a beneficiary of the trust, or how else do they receive loan amounts?

[malvolio]

Firstly - any money not paid into a trust can't then be paid out as a loan, so in that case, not sure how "although they DO appear to have a legal right to do so (otherwise loans would be income and taxable)" would be at all relevant. If a loan is made from a trust, the EBT company can't recall them.

Secondly, Not trying to pull the wool over yours or anybody else's eyes. I don't know what sort of crappy half arsed schemes you're talking about, but in any decent scheme, the contractors would of course be a beneficiary of the trust, or how else do they receive loan amounts?

I think the point is, where is the money between receipt and being transferred into the Trust where it is fairly safe?