Accounts Software

[brigzy]

FWIW, I'd imagine that most contractors should be able to get by by just using a relatively simple Excel spreadsheet. The DIY accounts forum above is a good place to start.

ah I see what you mean about the link to accountants - I thought it was odd when they posted that.

BTW I can assure you DIY accounting is full-on [edit: comprehensive] accounts and no simple spreadsheet

Thanks

[brigzy]

Accountant Free!!

Hi friends,

it has been a while since I posted on this thread, but I think I have a reason to celebrate my experiment..

22 months of being accountant free!

I just filed my CT600 on-line yesterday (BTW the HMRC service automatically sends the details to companies house for you) , and I have to say it felt good that I had managed to get by without an accountant.

How much money have I saved?

I would think most folk are paying £1500+vat a year for accounts fees(?) so I think I will have saved £3600 inc.vat come January (I am on flat rate so VAT is significant). And continuing to save the company £150 inc.vat every month thereafter.

Costs in terms of my time - I would say I spend one day every three months on bookkeeping in general, including VAT return etc.

My other cost has been the DIY accounting spreadsheets ; about £38 a year.

The biggest gain for me though is being in control of the companies money, and building a growing understanding of the company finances. I like not being reliant on busy accountants processing hundreds of accounts like sausages!

This is not advice, just sharing my experience so far.

Anyone else out there who is accountant free? - or thinking about it - then it would be good to hear from you

Best Regards

Richard
richard.briggs@leansoftware.net

[cojak]

Thanks for letting us know how you got on Brigzy

[tractor]

QB

My experience with QuickBooks had always been great until the VAT rate started changing, first to 15 then to 20%. My version could not handle it, Support was rubbish and I had to upgrade it - cost about £400 quid, when the rate went to 20% it still could not handle the VAT changes easily and a lot of headache ensued.

Prior to the '96 version, I believe that VAT changes and the set up of additional VAT Codes and rates was a simple matter - It may be that as soon as Intuit got wind of any rate changes, they changed the functionality to actually make it more difficult but that's just a pet conspiracy theory.

It may be that they have reintroduced functionality to ease any further changes, in which case this advice becomes irrelevant but anyone considering QB should investigate the issue first.

[brigzy]

Accounts Guide

Hi

I found with DIY accounting the VAT change to be no problem, your first months VAT rate is pulled from the setup spreadsheet.
If there is a change in rate you can specify the new rate in the sales spreadsheet on the Month tab where the new rate is to be applied from. Subsequent months VAT rate is linked to the previous months rate - simple enough.

Here is the accounting guide I received : you may find this interesting/helpful (?):
http://leansoftware.net/ServiceDesk/...suserguide.pdf

Richard

richard.briggs@leansoftware.net

[malvolio]

Actually, I'm in full control of my company's monies and know exactly how much I have and how much is committed even though I use an accountant. If you aren't (a) you're doing it wrong anyway and (b) whoever is in charge of your monies are acting as an MSC and you should be paying full PAYE and NICs. Plus 8 days of your time (4 for doing unpaid work, 4 for using up your free time to do it) at say £450 a day is £3600, which make your net saving negative (see - don't argue with ex-Cost Accountants...). And of course you need to add a little more time to keep up with the ever-changing tax landscape

Just thought I'd mention it. Otherwise, well done.

[Sockpuppet]

Actually, I'm in full control of my company's monies and know exactly how much I have and how much is committed even though I use an accountant. If you aren't (a) you're doing it wrong anyway and (b) whoever is in charge of your monies are acting as an MSC and you should be paying full PAYE and NICs. Plus 8 days of your time (4 for doing unpaid work, 4 for using up your free time to do it) at say £450 a day is £3600, which make your net saving negative (see - don't argue with ex-Cost Accountants...). And of course you need to add a little more time to keep up with the ever-changing tax landscape

Just thought I'd mention it. Otherwise, well done.

Your costs only add up if it means you can't sell your time that you're keeping up with the accountancy work. If you manage to keep up to date while also billing your plans go out the window. Or it assumes that you sell 100% of you time and therefore any days not spent billing are lost but doesn't account for bench time.

In any case I still use an accountant as I found a nice local one who charges us £650+VAT. Reasonable to me.

[brigzy]

Thoughts..

Actually, I'm in full control of my company's monies and know exactly how much I have and how much is committed even though I use an accountant. If you aren't (a) you're doing it wrong anyway and (b) whoever is in charge of your monies are acting as an MSC and you should be paying full PAYE and NICs. Plus 8 days of your time (4 for doing unpaid work, 4 for using up your free time to do it) at say £450 a day is £3600, which make your net saving negative (see - don't argue with ex-Cost Accountants...). And of course you need to add a little more time to keep up with the ever-changing tax landscape

Just thought I'd mention it. Otherwise, well done.

Hmmm - I think it depends - if you are keeping records (sales/expenses/doing your own invoicing VAT return), aren't you doing 80% the same as me anyway, except I don't have an accountant’s bill? Or is your accountant doing all of the paperwork?

If your accountant is getting you to do the donkey work then the savings I would have thought would be double (cost of lost hours + accountant bill)?

I take your point though about being heads up on tax changes, I have had to learn quite a bit this last year or so… but I find the HMRC site pretty helpful & straight forword, but yes for advice I end up asking on a forum. I guess as the years go by I have less to learn and it will get easier, and will have to invest less time.

BTW one thing I find really useful is the tax reminder tool!
Tax deadline email alerts | Business Link

[malvolio]

Hmmm - I think it depends - if you are keeping records (sales/expenses/doing your own invoicing VAT return), aren't you doing 80% the same as me anyway, except I don't have an accountant’s bill? Or is your accountant doing all of the paperwork?

If your accountant is getting you to do the donkey work then the savings I would have thought would be double (cost of lost hours + accountant bill)?

I take your point though about being heads up on tax changes, I have had to learn quite a bit this last year or so… but I find the HMRC site pretty helpful & straight forword, but yes for advice I end up asking on a forum. I guess as the years go by I have less to learn and it will get easier, and will have to invest less time.

BTW one thing I find really useful is the tax reminder tool!
Tax deadline email alerts | Business Link

Less than half an hour a month dropping the bank and credit card statements into a spreadsheet, usually on a Saturday morning waiting for SWMBO to get up for breakfast. Accountant does the year end, all the returns, PAY/NICs and payroll, VAT100 (I'm not on FRS) and reminders for anything even faintly related to HMRC. All I do is pay the bills - another 15 minutes a month at most.

£1235 a year well spent from where I sit. YMMV.

[craig1]

I do my weekly updating of my books, paying bills, sending invoices, tracking expenses etc on the train home on a Friday night. It's using time I'd otherwise be doing nothing bar read a book, passing the time until I get home so that time is already committed. Takes about 30 mins maximum, usually only 15 mins though. Once a month, I take it in turns with my wife to reconcile the bank accounts with the spreadsheets, takes about 30 mins to mark it all up, again done in train time. Once a quarter, take figures from spreadsheet, dump them into the VAT template on the HMRC site and hit send. No additional time beyond that already committed.

One Sunday, once a year, we do our annual accounts and it takes 2-3 hours max because we've done all the work above.

Accountancy bill = £0
Lost revenue through having to do it myself = £0,
New sunk time costs to me = one Sunday where I don't have to go to the in-laws so really cost neutral in terms of value to me!