The end is nigh ?

[JohntheBike]

Currently in the process of raising this with HR at my current gig. I know they want to engage me on new project (yet to start) after my current contract ends in July for on a 12 month contract (not within the 24 month rule). A years contract will take me beyond April 2020 so I am trying to engage with the HR department regarding their stance on the proposed off payroll reform in the private sector. So far, I am not having much success. The local engineering management team are clueless regarding IR35, and to be honest why should they be any different, deferring the issue to HR.

The organisation concerned is a non UK owned multinational company, although I will be engaged solely by the UK arm of that company.

I'll let you know how I get on.

"clueless regarding IR35,"

this is why I believe that when the realisation of the implications of the April 2020 roll out are known, many clients in this position will be intimidated by HMRC into classing their contractors as caught. Yes, there are some clients who may understand the implications, but I believe that even they will be intimidated into applying blanket assessments. We really do need a high profile client, e.g. the BBC to lose a case in the ET/EAT, i.e. a contractor classed as caught by CEST wins a case for full employment benefits. But I guess if any such case did reach the ET, there is every likely hood that the plaintiff, the client and the ET would come under HMG pressure to settle out of court, just as happened in the Winchester case.

[Yorkie62]

Just had the following email reply from HR

I am afraid that we do not have the answers to your queries below just yet.

There is a working party looking at the impact of IR35 and we hope to have an update on this, following their next meeting which I believe is taking place next week.

Once I hear more, I shall let you know.

There's a working group????? I am tempted to ask who is the contractors representative on that working group, but I think I already know the answer. Gattica!

[northernladuk]

Just had the following email reply from HR



There's a working group????? I am tempted to ask who is the contractors representative on that working group, but I think I already know the answer. Gattica!

We've got exactly the same at my clients and I've managed to get myself on it recently. They've made a pretty good job of it to be fair. Tons of groups involved from the people including groups actually using contractors, agency, legal representatives (internal and bought in) that know IR35, agency and so on. I actually don't think I can make much difference except challenge certain information or assumptions. Problem here is IT contractors only make up a small number of contractors. We've got a ton of drivers, admin and other people running PSC's etc that are more problematic than us but I'll be making sure it's not done as a one size fits all although looking at the people in the forum I don't think they would have done.

What you could ask HR, if they are willing to share, which I doubt, is who is involved in this working group. The best you can probably do is asses if they've got the right people to give some piece of mind. If they have the right people then there is probably very little value add having contractors contributing.

One major point though. I got a good grilling of what I know about IR35 past and present and about how it's applied and what I think I might be able to contribute. I'd hope other clients will do the same and not just accept any contractor in that's got an axe to grind or worried about their personal status. Getting some idiot like JohnTheBike on a working group like this is going to cause a hell of a lot more damage than add value. We have to tread carefully in these types of groups.

[JohntheBike]

We've got exactly the same at my clients and I've managed to get myself on it recently. They've made a pretty good job of it to be fair. Tons of groups involved from the people including groups actually using contractors, agency, legal representatives (internal and bought in) that know IR35, agency and so on. I actually don't think I can make much difference except challenge certain information or assumptions. Problem here is IT contractors only make up a small number of contractors. We've got a ton of drivers, admin and other people running PSC's etc that are more problematic than us but I'll be making sure it's not done as a one size fits all although looking at the people in the forum I don't think they would have done.

What you could ask HR, if they are willing to share, which I doubt, is who is involved in this working group. The best you can probably do is asses if they've got the right people to give some piece of mind. If they have the right people then there is probably very little value add having contractors contributing.

One major point though. I got a good grilling of what I know about IR35 past and present and about how it's applied and what I think I might be able to contribute. I'd hope other clients will do the same and not just accept any contractor in that's got an axe to grind or worried about their personal status. Getting some idiot like JohnTheBike on a working group like this is going to cause a hell of a lot more damage than add value. We have to tread carefully in these types of groups.

"Getting some idiot like JohnTheBike on a working group like this is going to cause a hell of a lot more damage than add value"

by even suggesting I might be invited onto such a group, which is extremely unlikely, you are conceding that I could have a noticeable affect on the issues. So far there has been no evidence to suggest that dialogue has had any affect on the issues. Progress has only been made where court cases have been involved.

and whatever you might think, I've kept HMRC off my back for nigh on 18 years now as a result of the action I took. So from my personal point of view, and everyone will approach the issues from their own point of view, my actions were entirely justified.

[highlandspring]

IRS 35

It does seem strange the new regime only starts in April, so surely they are only pushing away people that would consider short term work.