November 22nd - The death of contracting as we know it

[eek]

What a miserable little twat you are. Not only are such a snivelling little tulip for not having the courage to post that under your 'usual' username (although I could take a guess at what it really is) but, you see quite happy to throw fellow contractors under the bus so you personally can escape the extra tax burden.

Yes, we've all see the odd one or two contractors who are inside. Ive tried to educate them on how to stay outside by having contracts professionally reviewed and not act like a permie etc. Despite that, there remains a very tiny hardcore of contractors who should be taxed as inside IR35 but that is HMRCs job and not ours.

If you've been at places that have legions of these 'so far inside' contractors, maybe you should look at yourself seeing as those clients actually engaged you at some point.

Sadly, there is always a group of people such as yourself who see themselves as better than everyone else.

There is a few narrow difference between a tiny minority and a large number - it’s one of perception

[Fred Bloggs]

Right here is a major blunder in your representatives strategic thinking -

"If the government is serious about addressing disguised employment it should implement a statutory definition of self-employment."

I have said this so many times, but here goes again. You need to be VERY careful what you wish for. Contractors kept themselves outside of IR35 precisely because there is no statutory definition of self employment. Within the frame work of legislation and case law it has been like nailing jelly to a wall. This has played very nicely in favour of contractors. Contractors are not even self employed. Are they? Here we are almost 18 years after the introduction of IR35 and your representatives are calling on the government to draft a definition of your working practices. Guess where that definition is going to place you with respect to IR35? This strategy by your "friends" really is the very last thing you need. What you all REALLY need is much more uncertainty and doubt. That way, it carries on being like nailing jelly to a wall and you'll win many more IR35 cases. A statutory definition? It's going to define you as inside IR35, end of.

[unixman]

Contrary to popular belief, most contractors do it for the freedom and the extra money, not for tax savings. (Right, lads and lasses?). If the govt. wants to "level the playing field", perhaps it could start by unifying NI and income tax, as it promised to do in 2010.

[eek]

Contrary to popular belief, most contractors do it for the freedom and the extra money, not for tax savings. (Right, lads and lasses?). If the govt. wants to "level the playing field", perhaps it could start by unifying NI and income tax, as it promised to do in 2010.

I went back contracting to recover control of my career.... and it worked from legacy support back to one of the experts in a tech area I'm interested in....

[washed up contractor]

There is a few narrow difference between a tiny minority and a large number - it’s one of perception

No there isn't, that statement is not only absurd but also totally unsubstantiated.

We have all been to client sites where there is a contractor who has been continuously 'on site' for 5 or more years. In nearly 20 years contracting, I have only ever come across such a contractor like this once.

Every long term contractor I know, including myself, have had repeat engagements at the same client broken by spells elsewhere. That is the norm not the exception. But if you want to continue a myth or support some agenda, knock yourself out.

[eek]

We have all been to client sites where there is a contractor who has been continuously 'on site' for 5 or more years. In nearly 20 years contracting, I have only ever come across such a contractor like this once.

that paragraph contradicts itself before I go any further - we have all seen yet I've never seen it....

Equally you haven't noticed that behaviour is a 2 way thing. Many places have a lot of contractors that I would perceive as inside because they treat contractors in the exact same way they treated their permanent employees...

[Fred Bloggs]

that paragraph contradicts itself before I go any further - we have all seen yet I've never seen it....

Equally you haven't noticed that behaviour is a 2 way thing. Many places have a lot of contractors that I would perceive as inside because they treat contractors in the exact same way they treated their permanent employees...

I would go so far as to say it isn't many places. I would say just about everywhere I have ever worked. Often a client co manager type will proudly proclaim " we treat everyone the same here", then wonder why the contractors are thinking "but we don't want to be treated the same".

[mattfx]

Certainly for me the main reason for wanting to make the change into contracting was the freedom aspect, not answering to the boss man, etc etc. However because I accepted my first contract at a lower rate than I'd have hoped to achieve in order to get into the market, for me the tax savings are a necessity at the present time. I will probably feel a little better about it once I get on to a higher day rate at a gig requiring slightly sharper skills, but I do think the current tax incentives when working for ones self are a very large motivator.

[poorautojobber]

They really don't do themselves any favours. Leaving some critical principles out and openly admitting it seems open to challenge.

I agree with Fred Bloggs though opaqueness is sometimes the best option for everyone.

[BrilloPad]

Contrary to popular belief, most contractors do it for the freedom and the extra money, not for tax savings. (Right, lads and lasses?). If the govt. wants to "level the playing field", perhaps it could start by unifying NI and income tax, as it promised to do in 2010.

Firstly, who cares what the Govt thinks? They will do what their HMRC masters tell them to. Witness the Gauke total U-turn 2009-2011 on BN66.

Secondly the government HATES us. We are seen as a threat to the establishment and have to be kept in our place.

We badly need a Guy Fawkes hacker who can cyber destroy parliament.