HMRC off payroll decision service

[jamesbrown]

Only hmrc could come up with a system where the tax status of A is determined by C and the liability is held by B.

So true.

[Semtex]

I think its worth being clear here.

HMRC only need to send out letters. Even if 50% of people object and pass the letter to IPSE or others to deal with that still gives them a 50% success rate as those without advice pay up.

And if HMRC swamp IPSE and others with more work than they can handle that to HMRC would be a win as well...

The thing to remember here is that HMRC can take what was once a lot of work individually identifying cases and instead adopt the blanket approach they nowadays prefer...

Sorry don't get it.

What has changed? HMRC has always known about circa 14,000 PS contractors? IR35 hasn't changed....

[eek]

Sorry don't get it.

What has changed? HMRC has always known about circa 14,000 PS contractors? IR35 hasn't changed....

They now have the NI numbers (and from that the names and addresses) of those people in a readily accessible report.....

Write scary letter (or 3), run mail merge and your done....

[Semtex]

They now have the NI numbers (and from that the names and addresses) of those people in a readily accessible report.....

Write scary letter (or 3), run mail merge and your done....

But HMRC have had these for a while now. Nothing in IR35 has changed, just from April (or sooner TFL) will organisations just change their models with regards to contractors through LTD companies. Majority will have to be brollys now.

[eek]

But HMRC have had these for a while now. Nothing in IR35 has changed, just from April (or sooner TFL) will organisations just change their models with regards to contractors through LTD companies. Majority will have to be brollys now.

You are missing something - currently they have NI details but no idea where people are actually working or what they are doing - that list has little value and still isn't being used by anything as shown by the fact my FOI requests asking for data collected from said system still aren't being answered (because they aren't using the data).

Come April they will have new list (tax payers perceived by their end client to be inside IR35) and that is a far more interesting list to play with especially when you merge it with the previous one...

Now I do know slightly more on the grapevine than I'm letting on here so I'll leave it at that...

[youngguy]

They just need agencies and PSEC bodies to fear being caught to force the majority inside. Previously they had no skin in the game, they do now.

Dare I say this is quite clever of old Hector. No resources to police, so move liability, which increases the risk for ps and agencies, resulting in a behavioural change from them.

Let's hope said agencies and ps recognise if they want decent people and to keep projects running they will have to alter rates.

The TFL case is going to be interesting in terms of how many stay and suck it up/bend over and how many walk

[youngguy]

But HMRC have had these for a while now. Nothing in IR35 has changed, just from April (or sooner TFL) will organisations just change their models with regards to contractors through LTD companies. Majority will have to be brollys now.

The different is right now if a contractor is caught, they foot the bill. Come April that will either be the ps or the agency and neither is likely keen on taking the risk, for fear of HMRC then looking at ALL contractors on their books.

[LondonManc]

Dare I say this is quite clever of old Hector. No resources to police, so move liability, which increases the risk for ps and agencies, resulting in a behavioural change from them.

Let's hope said agencies and ps recognise if they want decent people and to keep projects running they will have to alter rates.

The TFL case is going to be interesting in terms of how many stay and suck it up/bend over and how many walk

The TFL case still won't turn the heads of most BoS contractors in the PS who will be getting their own shafting in due course. How many happily drop into PAYE probably depends on their expenses.

[MPwannadecentincome]

The different is right now if a contractor is caught, they foot the bill. Come April that will either be the ps or the agency and neither is likely keen on taking the risk, for fear of HMRC then looking at ALL contractors on their books.

The agency might then go after the contractor? Those who have QDOS or IPSE are protected, the rest may or may not give in and pay up.

[northernladuk]

The agency might then go after the contractor? Those who have QDOS or IPSE are protected, the rest may or may not give in and pay up.

They are? I can't believe any existing products will payout in the same way with such a massive change? Surely the T&Cs will change now the risk factor has changed so much?

But I'm not sure the comment about coming after the contractor is true though.