Will contracting go out with a bang or a whimper?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Lisa reading over the IPSE response they appear to have raised an alternative which would result in the relief only kicking in after we traveled a defined number of miles. If any changes where made I'd think this would be a sensible approach. Though the report then states the government have made it clear they intend to proceed with the changes. We can only wait until the Autumn budget I suppose.

According to ONS figures the average permie commutes 11km each day whereas, according to the recent survey we did, the average contractor is travelling at least 3 times that distance so maybe aligning the threshold to the average permie commute would be fair

[pjt]

According to ONS figures the average permie commutes 11km each day whereas, according to the recent survey we did, the average contractor is travelling at least 3 times that distance so maybe aligning the threshold to the average permie commute would be fair

30km is probably a bit low if you ask me. If they set it at a level where daily commuting was unlikely say 50 miles+ this would kill off most daily commuting expense claims leaving the true Monday - Friday roles with tax relief. That would seem fair to me. I never could understand the reason why anyone would get away claiming expenses for a local contract anyway that really is unfair.

[fool]

30km is probably a bit low if you ask me. If they set it at a level where daily commuting was unlikely say 50 miles+ this would kill off most daily commuting expense claims leaving the true Monday - Friday roles with tax relief. That would seem fair to me. I never could understand the reason why anyone would get away claiming expenses for a local contract anyway that really is unfair.

I could live with not being able to claim travel but you shouldn't really make it about fairness.

I have a house in Scotland a reasonable distance from the major airports and train links. The mortgage costs about 300 a month to maintain and I could happily live there and do the Monday to Friday thing while expensing all the way.

Instead I moved to the London commuter belt where a monthly travelcard costs more than that, the commute is longer than the flight to Edinburgh and my mortgage is closer to 2k a Month.

You can compare me to the permies and suggest the tax relief isn't fair but you can't compare me to myself living in Scotland as I'd be expensing all that and would thus have far more money in my own pocket.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

30km is probably a bit low if you ask me. If they set it at a level where daily commuting was unlikely say 50 miles+ this would kill off most daily commuting expense claims leaving the true Monday - Friday roles with tax relief. That would seem fair to me. I never could understand the reason why anyone would get away claiming expenses for a local contract anyway that really is unfair.

Whatever threshold you set I could still see there being problems with this idea - a 30km journey in and around London and the home counties would take far longer than travelling the same distance in other areas so is it then a 'fair' determinant? Would people who lived 45 miles away from their workplace (to use your example) take a longer route just to make sure that they could claim tax relief?

[pjt]

I could live with not being able to claim travel but you shouldn't really make it about fairness.

I have a house in Scotland a reasonable distance from the major airports and train links. The mortgage costs about 300 a month to maintain and I could happily live there and do the Monday to Friday thing while expensing all the way.

Instead I moved to the London commuter belt where a monthly travelcard costs more than that, the commute is longer than the flight to Edinburgh and my mortgage is closer to 2k a Month.

You can compare me to the permies and suggest the tax relief isn't fair but you can't compare me to myself living in Scotland as I'd be expensing all that and would thus have far more money in my own pocket.

But if your doing a daily commute from your home to the center of London from a commutable town then why should you get tax relief on that journey? Its slightly different from spending four nights a week in a hotel etc The 2 are totally separate and the difference in house prices has zero to do with your travel costs surely.

[dynamicsaxcontractor]

But if your doing a daily commute from your home to the center of London from a commutable town then why should you get tax relief on that journey? Its slightly different from spending four nights a week in a hotel etc The 2 are totally separate and the difference in house prices has zero to do with your travel costs surely.

Why would it make any difference if I decide to travel home or stay near the client? If you run your business it should surely be up to you. Some people might not want to commute more than 30 minutes a day and some are happy to do 2 hours each way. How would you define what's ok or not? The whole thing is a farce and should just be put to bed before going any further, we have the 24 month rule for this.

[pjt]

Why would it make any difference if I decide to travel home or stay near the client? If you run your business it should surely be up to you. Some people might not want to commute more than 30 minutes a day and some are happy to do 2 hours each way. How would you define what's ok or not? The whole thing is a farce and should just be put to bed before going any further, we have the 24 month rule for this.

From what I understand the main reason the proposals have been raised are down to the number of employers forcing staff to go self employed so they can then be employed through umbrellas so they can then among other things claim for travel to their cleaning jobs etc. Theirs no getting away from the fact this is wrong and it looks like the changes being brought in will take us down with the rest. In my eyes at least having a miles from base rule would allow the people truly working away from home to continue claiming tax relief. The affects to us that do the Monday to Friday work are going to be felt a lot worse than someone claiming an annual rail ticket to London from one of the commuter belts.

[fool]

From what I understand the main reason the proposals have been raised are down to the number of employers forcing staff to go self employed so they can then be employed through umbrellas so they can then among other things claim for travel to their cleaning jobs etc. Theirs no getting away from the fact this is wrong and it looks like the changes being brought in will take us down with the rest. In my eyes at least having a miles from base rule would allow the people truly working away from home to continue claiming tax relief. The affects to us that do the Monday to Friday work are going to be felt a lot worse than someone claiming an annual rail ticket to London from one of the commuter belts.

Why should you be able to claim tax relief, period? It's a simple question but the answer is revealing. You want more money in your pocket. If you'd be unhappy if you had to pay your high T&S costs from your regular income.

You want to make that about fairness? Then we'll remove both ours T&S and we'll both have a similar cost of living. You may wail that is unfair but if your idea of fairness is drawning a line between us and you and making sure you're on the better side you won't get a lot of sympathy from us who are generally forced to accept this as a sunk cost.

Bare in my I'm only actually claiming a £400 travelcard but the point is, you'll lose this argument citing "fairness".

[pjt]

Why should you be able to claim tax relief, period? It's a simple question but the answer is revealing. You want more money in your pocket. If you'd be unhappy if you had to pay your high T&S costs from your regular income.

You want to make that about fairness? Then we'll remove both ours T&S and we'll both have a similar cost of living. You may wail that is unfair but if your idea of fairness is drawing a line between us and you and making sure you're on the better side you won't get a lot of sympathy from us who are generally forced to accept this as a sunk cost.

Bare in my I'm only actually claiming a £400 travelcard but the point is, you'll lose this argument citing "fairness".

The difference is you are doing a daily commute, I'm not. Most people would agree your commute is slightly different to someone working away. You may have a business cost but someone needs to draw a line somewhere and daily commutes would weed out the real issue HRMC are trying to target.

[fool]

The difference is you are doing a daily commute, I'm not. Most people would agree your commute is slightly different to someone working away. You may have a business cost but someone needs to draw a line somewhere and daily commutes would weed out the real issue HRMC are trying to target.

I agree that you need to draw the line somewhere. You can draw the line in 3 places:-

a) You're incoperated and thus can expense the travel.
b) Some vague middle groud
c) T&S isn't something you can expense anymore.

The problem is, when you pick the middle ground you're splitting us up and weakning your own position and this is the argument you're going to get back.

"Yep, it is different but it's your choice to live away and travel to presumbly better paid contracts. You can't expect HRMC and the rest of us to subsidized your choice so you can be better off than the rest of us."