So, I complained to the FCSA...

[eek]

I know. Tell Chris not me

Hey the FCSA isn't my problem - my viewpoint is that the FCSA is (about to become) an utterly irrelevant dinosaur.

[malvolio]

I'll believe the FCSA is of some value when Workwell are kicked out for intentionally stealing accrued holiday pay now there is actual evidence. Holiday pay only accrued because JSA / Workwell refused to offer Advanced holiday pay.

The problem the FCSA has is that that is perfectly legal under the FCSA's code of conduct but utterly illegal under employment law - given the more recent Pimlico case. And there has already been historic cases where FCSA have been forced to continue a members membership for legal reasons.

I know. Tell Chris not me

[eek]

I worked with Chris over the years. Unlike the FCSA he does not like service providers who don't do what they say. Hopefully he will be banging a few heads together across the industry. Between him and a couple of others working on a similar agenda you may see a general improvement in the umbrella market/agency world.

I'll believe the FCSA is of some value when Workwell are kicked out for intentionally stealing accrued holiday pay now there is actual evidence. Holiday pay only accrued because JSA / Workwell refused to offer Advanced holiday pay.

The problem the FCSA has is that that is perfectly legal under the FCSA's code of conduct but utterly illegal under employment law - given the more recent Pimlico case. And there has already been historic cases where FCSA have been forced to continue a members membership for legal reasons.

[malvolio]

Update

I had to make a pain of myself with the FCSA and challenge them (I told them I'd be sharing my experience here on CUK).

Chris stepped in and had a conversation with Exact payroll and the very same day I finally got some accurate payslips and a P45.

Fair play to him. He took the time to act rapidly and you can't ask for more than that.

The cynic in me feels that I possibly forced the FCSA's hand to step in, but either way he got a resolution which I had been unable to obtain.

I worked with Chris over the years. Unlike the FCSA he does not like service providers who don't do what they say. Hopefully he will be banging a few heads together across the industry. Between him and a couple of others working on a similar agenda you may see a general improvement in the umbrella market/agency world.

[youngguy]

Update

I had to make a pain of myself with the FCSA and challenge them (I told them I'd be sharing my experience here on CUK).

Chris stepped in and had a conversation with Exact payroll and the very same day I finally got some accurate payslips and a P45.

Fair play to him. He took the time to act rapidly and you can't ask for more than that.

The cynic in me feels that I possibly forced the FCSA's hand to step in, but either way he got a resolution which I had been unable to obtain.

[youngguy]

The FCSA does far more good for the industry than it does bad. Chris Bryce is a top bloke and will not tolerate tulip providers I assure you.

I'll update here if/as/when FCSA assist.

I very much hope you are correct, however industries where the 'members' fund the 'arbitrator' (eg NHBC) tend to fall far below independent ombudsman style mechanisms.

[eek]

The FCSA does far more good for the industry than it does bad. Chris Bryce is a top bloke and will not tolerate tulip providers I assure you.

It's also done far far far less than it could have done over the years (which clearly isn't Chris's fault as he appeared just before Brookson and Optionis were attacked).

But that lack of care for the industry as a whole is why the industry is in the mess it's in and very much in the last chance saloon (Based on the chat I had with BEIS earlier this week) And a lot of things the BEIS are looking at are items facilitated by the FCSA..

Mind you the BEIS are also fully aware of how many of these issues have been created by profit seeking agencies - so I suspect there may be a lot of changes elsewhere - for examples umbrella firms may lose their "right" to opt out of agency regulations - that will depend on the easiest means of restricting the options to PSCs only or it may mean just scrapping the opt out.

[Andy Hallett]

The FCSA does far more good for the industry than it does bad. Chris Bryce is a top bloke and will not tolerate tulip providers I assure you.

[eek]

I hear you, but between poor IT security, PSLs, unscrupulous behaviour and good old fashioned incompetence, contractors are more than likely to fall foul sooner or later and there isn't really anything that can be done to avoid it, short of going permie (mission accomplished HMRC!)

Oh I care about compliance I just know that any accreditation based on process, theory and hope has more holes than a swiss cheese.

Which is why we look at the actual RTI submissions and match them against the actual bank transactions so there is no hiding place.

System is fully integrated for umbrellas using Just Accounts, Octopaye should follow next week, then MyDigital at which point those umbrellas using Merit can work out how to do the integration themselves (because we can't).

[youngguy]

Hey things have improved.

Previously the FCSA point blank ignored all reports including ones of blatant tax evasion.

Beyond that I actually don't care that much - compliance based on hoping and praying that an umbrella is honest is past its sell by date.

I hear you, but between poor IT security, PSLs, unscrupulous behaviour and good old fashioned incompetence, contractors are more than likely to fall foul sooner or later and there isn't really anything that can be done to avoid it, short of going permie (mission accomplished HMRC!)

[eek]

Hey things have improved.

Previously the FCSA point blank ignored all reports including ones of blatant tax evasion.

Beyond that I actually don't care that much - compliance based on hoping and praying that an umbrella is honest is past its sell by date.

[ladymuck]

We all know FCSA are basically an old boy's club but it's useful to have a real world example of just how toothless their procedures are as a warning for others.

[youngguy]

....about my joke of an Umbrella.

Umbrella (Exact Payroll) messed up so many times (more details https://forums.contractoruk.com/umbr...tems-down.html. https://forums.contractoruk.com/umbr...t-payroll.html) I complained via their internal process.

Exact could give no assurances or timescales and their 2 week complaint process had been exceeded by a month so I raised it to the FCSA.

FCSA told me they would investigate and this would be done by the CEO personally.

Today, FCSA told me they called Exact and were told my case was of the highest priority but need more time (14 weeks so far). Strangely, my body of evidence didn't seem to hold much weight once one of their members told them all was good.

FCSA have told me there is nothing for them to do until Exact decide they have concluded [whatever things they are allegedly doing], whenever that may be it seems? Once Exact decide they have concluded I can go back to the FCSA if I am not happy.

To quote them "..your complaint with FCSA remains open and it will do until you confirm that Exact Payroll have either resolved your complaint and there is no further action to take, or that you remain dissatisfied with the outcome and you wish FCSA to investigate further". Essence of Kafka!

Just posting the facts so others can make their own determination of the value of FCSA to contractors (I feel Eek may be along soon with some humble pie for me and my naivety )


Update for completeness FCSA reluctantly acknowledged it wasn't quite cricket that Exact could take as long as they wanted. Apparently FCSA will contact Exact Payroll to ask when they may fancy fixing things. Of course FCSA have given no timeframes for the meeting.