resource solution forceing fcsa compliant umbrella

[lucyclarityumbrella]

As for who this is at HMRC, you will have to ask Julia.

Will do, thanks

[DolanContractorGroup]

Who do they share them with at HMRC? Surely there would need to be a disclosure agreement to do this as there is sensitive data that is shared which I don't ever recall seeing?

Hi Lucy

This is what the Code states: "FCSA will notify HMRC once your application is successful. By virtue of applying for FCSA accreditation, you agree to this information being shared with HMRC, should your application be successful."

As for who this is at HMRC, you will have to ask Julia.


Thanks

Zeeshan

[lucyclarityumbrella]

And FCSA is the only trade body that will shares the results with HMRC.

Who do they share them with at HMRC? Surely there would need to be a disclosure agreement to do this as there is sensitive data that is shared which I don't ever recall seeing?

[DolanContractorGroup]

According to Companies House the FCSA (i.e. FREELANCER AND CONTRACTOR SERVICES ASSOCIATION LIMITED) uses a virtual office for its registered address. It previously used Brooksons' address as registered office but has since changed (maybe to give an impression of independence?). Brooksons are still the accountants according to the last set of accounts filed with Companies House. According to these accounts the FCSA only has 1 employee (probably explains why the FCSA doesn't need a physical office).

One of the directors is Chris James. He is head of accounting at JSA Services Ltd.

The other director is Julia Kermode who appears to have a background in biology, medical charities, the voluntary sector and marketing before becoming director of the FCSA.

Consequently the FCSA does appear to be a small entity setup and run by the contractor accountancy/umbrella industry in order to regulate the contractor accountancy/umbrella industry. However, to its credit, it seems to be not for profit (limited by guarantee) and setup 11 years ago by firms not using offshore loan schemes as a way of distinguishing them from non-compliant providers.

There is another similar organisation called Professional Passport Limited. However this organization has never really gained the same traction as the FCSA. Most likely because it was not setup by the big contractor accountancy firms and therefore probably does not have a big budget. This organisation appears to be for profit.

In summary, I don't think either organization was originally setup to create a barrier to entry primarily for umbrella companies. However 11 years on it would seem that the FCSA is a barrier to entry because an umbrella will find it difficult to get onto a recruiter's PSL unless it can jump through all the compliance and financial hoops the FCSA lays down. I feel sorry for small umbrella companies trying to enter the market.

Long term I think the FCSA really needs to sever all ties board position ties that it has with its contractor firm members (e.g. get new accountants and new directors) and act like a genuine regulator, e.g. issuing fines to non-compliant providers, bringing the audit in-house rather than outsourcing it to EY, launching investigations, etc.

Hi AR Tax,

Every time a new chairman is elected from the board, they become a director of FCSA too. That's the only explanation for this as many of the names seem to correspond with past chairmen.

I would disagree with Professional Passport having the same "authority" as FCSA in the contractor industry. You may be right 5-6 years ago as at that time most of the audit questionnaires and PSL applications we did, we were asked if we were members of Professional Passport. However, this isn't the case now. They seem to revolve around us having FCSA membership, and indeed, all REC agencies that send out these applications specifically have FCSA mentioned because of the close working relationship between the two bodies.

I think that FCSA membership being a prerequisite for many agencies PSL is a good thing. It doesn't allow companies that use tax avoidance schemes to get any foothold in the market. We've been advising contractors for many years that headline take-home numbers aren't the be-all end-all.

We're going through our audit now, and it's not with EY. You can choose from a number of organisations. And FCSA is the only trade body that will shares the results with HMRC.

Thanks

Zeeshan

[AR Tax]

I'm really confused and concerned about this whole FCSA malarkey, from a companies house search it appears the FCSA was created by Directors of existing umbrellas (none of which seem to be completely legitimate - may I add & all happen accredited), so is this just a way for the 'top dogs' to monopolise the industry?

Does an FCSA accreditation really mean that, that specific umbrella can be trusted? Looking at the list of accredited umbrellas, I know for a fact at least 5 operate some form of scheme! To me the whole thing stinks of greed!

Intrigued to hear other peoples view on this?

According to Companies House the FCSA (i.e. FREELANCER AND CONTRACTOR SERVICES ASSOCIATION LIMITED) uses a virtual office for its registered address. It previously used Brooksons' address as registered office but has since changed (maybe to give an impression of independence?). Brooksons are still the accountants according to the last set of accounts filed with Companies House. According to these accounts the FCSA only has 1 employee (probably explains why the FCSA doesn't need a physical office).

One of the directors is Chris James. He is head of accounting at JSA Services Ltd.

The other director is Julia Kermode who appears to have a background in biology, medical charities, the voluntary sector and marketing before becoming director of the FCSA.

Consequently the FCSA does appear to be a small entity setup and run by the contractor accountancy/umbrella industry in order to regulate the contractor accountancy/umbrella industry. However, to its credit, it seems to be not for profit (limited by guarantee) and setup 11 years ago by firms not using offshore loan schemes as a way of distinguishing them from non-compliant providers.

There is another similar organisation called Professional Passport Limited. However this organization has never really gained the same traction as the FCSA. Most likely because it was not setup by the big contractor accountancy firms and therefore probably does not have a big budget. This organisation appears to be for profit.

In summary, I don't think either organization was originally setup to create a barrier to entry primarily for umbrella companies. However 11 years on it would seem that the FCSA is a barrier to entry because an umbrella will find it difficult to get onto a recruiter's PSL unless it can jump through all the compliance and financial hoops the FCSA lays down. I feel sorry for small umbrella companies trying to enter the market.

Long term I think the FCSA really needs to sever all ties board position ties that it has with its contractor firm members (e.g. get new accountants and new directors) and act like a genuine regulator, e.g. issuing fines to non-compliant providers, bringing the audit in-house rather than outsourcing it to EY, launching investigations, etc.

[DolanContractorGroup]

I'm really confused and concerned about this whole FCSA malarkey, from a companies house search it appears the FCSA was created by Directors of existing umbrellas (none of which seem to be completely legitimate - may I add & all happen accredited), so is this just a way for the 'top dogs' to monopolise the industry?

Does an FCSA accreditation really mean that, that specific umbrella can be trusted? Looking at the list of accredited umbrellas, I know for a fact at least 5 operate some form of scheme! To me the whole thing stinks of greed!

Intrigued to hear other peoples view on this?

Hi Hanbanthankyoumam,

Which scheme is it that they promote?

If it's tax avoidance, then it would be good to let FCSA know.


Thanks

Zeeshan

[lucyclarityumbrella]

I'm really confused and concerned about this whole FCSA malarkey, from a companies house search it appears the FCSA was created by Directors of existing umbrellas (none of which seem to be completely legitimate - may I add & all happen accredited), so is this just a way for the 'top dogs' to monopolise the industry?

Does an FCSA accreditation really mean that, that specific umbrella can be trusted? Looking at the list of accredited umbrellas, I know for a fact at least 5 operate some form of scheme! To me the whole thing stinks of greed!

Intrigued to hear other peoples view on this?

As a "not yet member of the FCSA", I do know it was set up by some of the big players in the industry, none of whom I know operate any kind of scheme (would be interesting to hear otherwise) and I have been in the industry for nearly 10 years. I guess it is the easiest way for the recruiters to assume compliance, whilst the umbrella bears the cost. The audit is rigorous (having been through it previously with my last company) and tough to pass, but as with any audit it is only valid with the information that is reviewed at the time. Nothing is going to be fail safe, we have seen big umbrella's go down the pan in the past with no warning.

I do think it provides a good guideline, if I am being diplomatic, but the agencies should still be confirming compliance with HMRC guidelines for themselves... If the badge is the only thing that is used to assume compliance, then it is frustrating for those businesses that operate in a compliant manner but may get overlooked by the agencies, and frustrating on the contractors part, as they are limited to the agencies chosen umbrella's to manage their money.

[Hanbanthankyoumam]

FCSA

I'm really confused and concerned about this whole FCSA malarkey, from a companies house search it appears the FCSA was created by Directors of existing umbrellas (none of which seem to be completely legitimate - may I add & all happen accredited), so is this just a way for the 'top dogs' to monopolise the industry?

Does an FCSA accreditation really mean that, that specific umbrella can be trusted? Looking at the list of accredited umbrellas, I know for a fact at least 5 operate some form of scheme! To me the whole thing stinks of greed!

Intrigued to hear other peoples view on this?

[lucyclarityumbrella]

As long as the umbrella company can pass the agency compliance test then, in theory, there shouldn't be an issue; unfortunately it doesn't appear to be the case which means the umbrella companies who are compliant are being overlooked at times and the contractors are unable to have a say in who they use

Anyway come April 2020, the government should have their "governing body" in place under the Taylor Review, so it will be interesting to see what comes out of that!

[DeludedKitten]

So my contract is up for renewal and RS now telling me they can only issue a new contract to a "fcsa" compliant umbrella company. Apparently it a new policy since Jun 19. So wanted to know if anyone else has been told the same as I rather not change my current umbrella as I have being with them for 3+ years and more than happy.

The client has an approved list of suppliers that they now want to use. It's your choice whether you want to stay or not.

Pick one that looks good - Contractor Umbrella are on the list and they've always had good reviews round these parts.

But you could ask them why they think this is important in the first place, if you aren't going to change. I'm not sure that being a member of a trade association gives them any more real credence than Mars being a member of the Pet Food Manufacturers' Association tells me that they produce anything good for my cat...

[ladymuck]

Here's where you can check:

FCSA • Members Directory • Accredited Members FCSA

Set the drop-down to 'Umbrella Employment' and click search to see the full list.

Some interesting companies on that list, not entirely sure it's a ringing endorsement...

Damn annoying that the list is not alphabetical.

[TheInvoicer]

Did the specify the umbrella company you need to use, was it paystream or just any compliant one?


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[cojak]

resource solution forceing fcsa compliant umbrella

So my contract is up for renewal and RS now telling me they can only issue a new contract to a "fcsa" compliant umbrella company. Apparently it a new policy since Jun 19. So wanted to know if anyone else has been told the same as I rather not change my current umbrella as I have being with them for 3+ years and more than happy.

I would point out to RS that the umbrella you’re using is already FCSA compliant.

It IS fcsa compliant, isn’t it??

[itconman68]

So my contract is up for renewal and RS now telling me they can only issue a new contract to a "fcsa" compliant umbrella company. Apparently it a new policy since Jun 19. So wanted to know if anyone else has been told the same as I rather not change my current umbrella as I have being with them for 3+ years and more than happy.