Reply to: Holiday/sick pay, hours offered etc

[questions]

These should be with you now, if you don't receive them for any reason then please give me a shout

Thanks Lucy - all received and very clear. Hopefully I'll be on your books soon.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

Contractor Umbrella did say they would get more details to me this week so hopefully they will come through.

These should be with you now, if you don't receive them for any reason then please give me a shout

[questions]

Just been having a chat with Crystal Umbrella and they seem to have the same practice. They deduct 14.3% of the contract rate with no employers NI tax allowances included \ allowed for (13.8% NI + 0.5% levy on total amount). When I asked for more details the response was:

"Your additional required cost is 14.3% - this is for employers NI, sick pay, paternity pay and includes the levy for apprenticeship Levy. If you don’t go sick then you are not due anything back – just the same as a normal employee."

I'm still talking to a couple of others, including contractor umbrella, but the additional costs (on top of admin costs) are not very clear from any of them; it is just a lump sum that includes Employers NI and apprenticeship levy but when I calculate that amount, it is always less than the additional costs I am being quoted.

Contractor Umbrella did say they would get more details to me this week so hopefully they will come through.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

That doesn't sound like good business for them

It isn't but it is law

[bikeman]

Nope - legally it must come from the brolly!

That doesn't sound like good business for them

[lucyclarityumbrella]

Presumably they retain some of your pay to cover sick days? Or as long as you're paid in arrears they have something in the pipeline to cover it. One things for sure it wont be coming out of anyone's pocket except yours.

Nope - legally it must come from the brolly!

[bikeman]

Right this might be a stupid question but they really pay sick pay out of their own pocket? How does this work for them then?

Surely I could work for a week (say earn £2000 and get paid it) then pull a sickie for a month? Where does the money come for this?

Presumably they retain some of your pay to cover sick days? Or as long as you're paid in arrears they have something in the pipeline to cover it. One things for sure it wont be coming out of anyone's pocket except yours.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

In my experience the umbrella cos I've used post 2006 did not retain holiday pay. Holiday pay was itemised it on my payslip and paid it as 'an advance on account of sums due'. I know that Contract Umbrella do retain holiday pay. Some do and some don't, it's probably just an interpretation of HMRC's convoluted rules. Given a choice I'd choose an umbrella co who don't hold onto my pay.

Rolling it up is in contravention with the EU Working Time Directive but that doesn't stop some - who knows how it will / can be operated post Brexit

[TheFaQQer]

Right this might be a stupid question but they really pay sick pay out of their own pocket? How does this work for them then?

Surely I could work for a week (say earn £2000 and get paid it) then pull a sickie for a month? Where does the money come for this?

https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay/eligibility

You need to have worked for eight weeks before SSP becomes payable. Maybe you should read up on your rights as an employee?

[northernladuk]

Well you were right on one point anyway.

[psychocandy]

Right this might be a stupid question but they really pay sick pay out of their own pocket? How does this work for them then?

Surely I could work for a week (say earn £2000 and get paid it) then pull a sickie for a month? Where does the money come for this?

[bikeman]

They should be retaining it, if they are paying you back every pay period then they are operating rolled up holiday pay, which was classified as unlawful in 2006 under the EU Working Time Directive! As for sickpay, they cannot ask this to come from you the contractor, it must be paid for out of their profit, if they retain this, it is classed as an unlawful deduction of earnings

In my experience the umbrella cos I've used post 2006 did not retain holiday pay. Holiday pay was itemised it on my payslip and paid it as 'an advance on account of sums due'. I know that Contract Umbrella do retain holiday pay. Some do and some don't, it's probably just an interpretation of HMRC's convoluted rules. Given a choice I'd choose an umbrella co who don't hold onto my pay.

As to why they pay most of your pay as a bonus, this is because they have an employment contract with you and must by law pay you minimum wage. If you have a signed timesheet and the umbrella co's invoice isn't paid they must still pay you min wage.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

Not a great start mind. They promised to call me back at 1pm yesterday and didnt bother.

Maybe you could hint to your agency

[psychocandy]

They should be retaining it, if they are paying you back every pay period then they are operating rolled up holiday pay, which was classified as unlawful in 2006 under the EU Working Time Directive! As for sickpay, they cannot ask this to come from you the contractor, it must be paid for out of their profit, if they retain this, it is classed as an unlawful deduction of earnings

They gave me an option to retain holiday pay.

BTW - this is a company on the list. Sterling.

Not a great start mind. They promised to call me back at 1pm yesterday and didnt bother.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

They want to know if I want the company to retain holiday/sick pay or for me to get it - WTF.

They should be retaining it, if they are paying you back every pay period then they are operating rolled up holiday pay, which was classified as unlawful in 2006 under the EU Working Time Directive! As for sickpay, they cannot ask this to come from you the contractor, it must be paid for out of their profit, if they retain this, it is classed as an unlawful deduction of earnings