Reply to: The end of I.T. jobs in the U.K.

[rootsnall]

(If you don't have an ft subscription, tough **** )

I just cancelled mine, and they deliberately reinstated me and you had to go via the offshore call centre ( with some difficulty ) to get it done a second time. They then offered me all sorts of deals. Told them to sod off.

[jamesbrown]

Coronavirus: Biggest cities deserted as only 17% of staff return to the office | News | The Times

I'll just leave this here......

13% in London, 17% Across the country.....

I'll just leave this here.....

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Workers have started to return to offices and workplaces in greater numbers across the UK despite fears over the recent surge in coronavirus cases.

With the majority of schools reopening in the last week, company bosses have said they are seeing more workers come back to the office, with public transport use also increasing as a result.

The number of London Underground journeys was 15 per cent higher on Monday compared with Tuesday last week — the first working day after the Bank Holiday, rising to more than a fifth higher on Tuesday morning, again compared with last Tuesday. The number of bus journeys in the capital was almost 40 per cent higher on Monday than last Tuesday, and 46 per cent higher on Tuesday morning.

Shocking, completely unexpected.

(If you don't have an ft subscription, tough **** )

[jayn200]

Sounds like B$... running payroll is such a small cost and mostly automated that outsourcing is a pointless task. There's also data protection, it's not a great idea to have everyone's data accessible from another country. For outsourcing IT... kind of depends on what that means. If it's development work, most of the time it's a false economy.

Lots of companies will use a payroll company actually, yes they'll have their own internal payroll people but they still quite often use a 3rd party. I have no idea if those payroll companies are usually local or not.

The whole game with outsourced IT has changed with the massive increase in MSPs which are mostly local. So yes there is a lot of outsourcing of IT function (infrastructure+support not development) to MSPs but that's mostly to local companies who are still employing people in the country. Companies still want their IT local and almost all of them still want a face to come in the office either full or part time. Of course those MSPs could have a supporting office function thats in another country but I haven't really seen that model done very much, I don't think it's very popular but I could be wrong.

As far as development I mean everyone here is probably already familiar with what a giant failure that usually is but companies will keep trying. I don't think it'll go back and forth for a while.

[nhussain03]

Interesting idea that the IT industry will be negatively impacted. In the last recession that certainly was the case, however I would say most companies have already dabbled in outsourcing back in the 2000's and they moved away from it for a reason.

As others have said timezone issues, difficultly in managing projects and expectations and the fact that things change in some quickly in some companies. There is also a pull back from globalisation a little that is taking place so actually international trade may slow down not increase. Office workers will return eventually, not all at the same time but they will return.

Come 2022 I would be surprised if workers have not returned. I do think WFH will be seen more favourably from now on and the way offices work will be different, staff wont have their own desks but hot desking and workspaces will be shared(assuming the threat from covid disappears).

[krytonsheep]

As a further warning for Britain's reluctant office workers, he reports that two chief executives he has spoken to this month are considering reducing costs by outsourcing payroll and IT jobs to South Africa and India if working from home becomes the norm.

Sounds like B$... running payroll is such a small cost and mostly automated that outsourcing is a pointless task. There's also data protection, it's not a great idea to have everyone's data accessible from another country. For outsourcing IT... kind of depends on what that means. If it's development work, most of the time it's a false economy.

[jayn200]

You're making a waffly claim based on a personal anecdote. I'll go with the ONS, even if it's for workers in general.

Coronavirus: Biggest cities deserted as only 17% of staff return to the office | News | The Times

I'll just leave this here......

13% in London, 17% Across the country.....

[LondonManc]

Latest survey I saw was that for development costs London and Sofia were actually equal (Sofia is cheaper, London coders are more productive). My experience is that Bulgaria is OK once you found their decent developer rather than the other 9 you were being given first.

If you are outsourcing work to freelancers directly sending work abroad is cheaper but you want individuals rather than companies.

Depends if you're bothered about quality and having it delivered any time soon.

[jayn200]

Er, because this is not the states and we have different laws and they have their own constitution? We're not quite as litigious as they are.

And, anyway, that proposal does not "give immunity" or mean someone "won't be able to sue them" as you state. It's adding safeguards to stop frivolous litigation.

It does not disallow suing, as you suggested.

So, again, what would stop someone suing a company here?

Also of note that UK implemented their legislation restricting people from suing for vaccine injuries 7 years earlier than USA did. So I don't really think your point is valid at all. If anything UK has shown they are quicker to restrict peoples ability to sue for injuries than in the USA where they generally have an easier time suing and for much higher amounts.

[jayn200]

Er, because this is not the states and we have different laws and they have their own constitution? We're not quite as litigious as they are.

And, anyway, that proposal does not "give immunity" or mean someone "won't be able to sue them" as you state. It's adding safeguards to stop frivolous litigation.

It does not disallow suing, as you suggested.

So, again, what would stop someone suing a company here?

Nothing would stop someone right now that I know of but it is likely to come soon.

Look at vaccine damage payment act. You are not entitled to any compensation if you were vaccinated during an outbreak of disease. You are also restricted in that you can't sue for damages for a vaccine injury.

That is in the UK, it's very reasonable to assume they will do something similar here. Again I haven't been following what types of legislation is being proposed during the pandemic and if anything has been drafted yet or not.

It's fine if you don't agree it will happen but that's my completely valid opinion.

[Paralytic]

GOP Introduces Bill Creating Broad Civil Immunity for COVID-19 Lawsuits - Lexology

It's happening right now in the states.

Why don't you think it can happen here?

Er, because this is not the states and we have different laws and they have their own constitution? We're not quite as litigious as they are.

And, anyway, that proposal does not "give immunity" or mean someone "won't be able to sue them" as you state. It's adding safeguards to stop frivolous litigation.

It does not disallow suing, as you suggested.

So, again, what would stop someone suing a company here?

[jayn200]

What legislation have you not been following? And what form of legislation would be able to prohibit someone from suing a company?

GOP Introduces Bill Creating Broad Civil Immunity for COVID-19 Lawsuits - Lexology

It's happening right now in the states.

Why don't you think it can happen here?

[Paralytic]

I haven't been following all the legislation but if they haven't already been given immunity they will be soon. You won't be able to sue them.

What legislation have you not been following? And what form of legislation would be able to prohibit someone from suing a company?

[jayn200]

The old gray bastards at the top will be fine, self-isolating in their spacious socially distanced offices.

I wonder when we'll get the first family suing a family member's former employer for forcing them to return to the office and them contracting and subsequently dying from Covid.

I haven't been following all the legislation but if they haven't already been given immunity they will be soon. You won't be able to sue them.

[eek]

What does that mean in English? Sorry, I dont do gobbledygook.

If you can't understand the item you've quoted I don't think English is your first language it really is very clear

My client too has just switched from a remote is the default
We were working from home - all the time
to, in office is the default unless agreed on a day by day basis.
We (at client) are now working in the office - all the time

So crammed into a virus pit.
Social distancing is an issue
I hope the old gray bastards at the top all die from it.
Don't need to explain that

[TheDogsNads]

My client too has just switched from a remote is the default, to, in office is the default unless agreed on a day by day basis.

So crammed into a virus pit. I hope the old gray bastards at the top all die from it.

What does that mean in English? Sorry, I dont do gobbledygook.