• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.

Reply to: The end

Collapse

You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

  • You are not logged in. If you are already registered, fill in the form below to log in, or follow the "Sign Up" link to register a new account.
  • You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
  • If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Previously on "The end"

Collapse

  • founder
    replied
    I feel 60% better now thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by founder View Post
    Applied for permie role at about 60% of what I'm earning last contract role
    And? That's always been the case a £50k permanent job, would pay £50 an hour.

    If anything, given how little wages have increased over the years 60% is a good deal

    Leave a comment:


  • founder
    replied
    Applied for permie role at about 60% of what I'm earning last contract role

    Leave a comment:


  • MojoDog
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkT View Post
    So, that's that then I guess. No more contracting, unless we can fight it as a group and gain enough traction with Tory MPs to stop it by 2020. Not much chance of that, but you have to try.

    Won't somebody think of the accountants?
    Maybe, maybe not. There are still contract roles in the public sector that are designated as outside IR35 - at HMRC would you believe?

    Not much point speculating, save your energy to deal with whatever happens, when it happens.

    Leave a comment:


  • Addanc
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkT View Post
    So, that's that then I guess. No more contracting, unless we can fight it as a group and gain enough traction with Tory MPs ...
    The only way you will gain traction with Tory MPs is by threatening to remove their snouts from the tax payers trough. Disappointed that IPSE didn't release the list of Tory consistencies most vulnerable to the contractor vote before the last election.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogerfederer
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    You are absolutely correct and yes it's SoW with detailed deliverables as part of team delivering a whole product. The paperwork and prep for it was a right pain in the arse, as will reporting and milestone completion.

    Still a lot of bum on seat contractors here though so will be interesting to see how they've managed it.

    Why is anything changing after April for a public sector client? There is a few rules they have to come in to line with about issuing determinations I believe but the changes in April don't affect them. Its been in place for 2 years.
    I was under the impression that the off-payroll rules, depending on what is actually added to (from feedback) and implemented, could potentially mean a contract cannot be outside IR35 unless it's paid in a certain manner.

    I've got an infrequent work in the public sector that requires updating so I'll be aiming to be paid via milestones rather than time and materials, but when I've raised this with other contractors in a similar position their eyes glaze over and it's obvious they don't have a clue what's potentially changing.

    It seems the private sector implementation will be far stricter, if T&M is disallowed (for obvious reasons), whereas it's still used in outside IR35 contracts in the public sector even after 2017.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by rogerfederer View Post
    NorthernLadetteUK:
    Are you sure your contract is going to be ok?

    My understanding is that there is a shift for private and public sector towards removal of T&M (Time and Materials) to SoW (Statement of Work). Crucially this means that the agency have to invoice for milestones completed, rather than per unit. The agencies I've spoken with who place only outside IR35 contract work fulfillment limited companies don't seem to have much of a clue about this when queried, which is worrying.

    I'm currently having an issue with a public sector client who seem to think it's business as usual after April 6th but I strongly suspect that T&M will be considered Inside IR35 even if the public sector body considers the contract with SoW to be outside IR35. Think of it like a two tick system in order to attain outside IR35 status.

    All will be revealed after the proposal that is currently out for feedback...
    You are absolutely correct and yes it's SoW with detailed deliverables as part of team delivering a whole product. The paperwork and prep for it was a right pain in the arse, as will reporting and milestone completion.

    Still a lot of bum on seat contractors here though so will be interesting to see how they've managed it.

    Why is anything changing after April for a public sector client? There is a few rules they have to come in to line with about issuing determinations I believe but the changes in April don't affect them. Its been in place for 2 years.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 5 February 2020, 19:15.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogerfederer
    replied
    Originally posted by BritishLad88 View Post
    Interesting to read that, definitely given me food for thought. For quite some time, i've been quietly worrying but after hearing that I don't think I have to worry anymore. Your post have really calmed me down.
    NorthernLadetteUK:
    Are you sure your contract is going to be ok?

    My understanding is that there is a shift for private and public sector towards removal of T&M (Time and Materials) to SoW (Statement of Work). Crucially this means that the agency have to invoice for milestones completed, rather than per unit. The agencies I've spoken with who place only outside IR35 contract work fulfillment limited companies don't seem to have much of a clue about this when queried, which is worrying.

    I'm currently having an issue with a public sector client who seem to think it's business as usual after April 6th but I strongly suspect that T&M will be considered Inside IR35 even if the public sector body considers the contract with SoW to be outside IR35. Think of it like a two tick system in order to attain outside IR35 status.

    All will be revealed after the proposal that is currently out for feedback...

    Leave a comment:


  • BritishLad88
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    I had to leave my public sector client due to IR35 issues 2 years ago. I start back with them on Tuesday back outside. Taken a year or two for them to get their head around it and start offering outside gigs but they did.

    Now how long that is going to be with the massive clients blanket banning PSC's I've no idea. I don't think it will be forever but it most certainly won't be what it was in the past (now).
    Interesting to read that, definitely given me food for thought. For quite some time, i've been quietly worrying but after hearing that I don't think I have to worry anymore. Your post have really calmed me down.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by OneManBand View Post
    Just noticed this post from just over a year ago. Famous last words, eh?
    Nope. I expect it will be a mess for a period and start coming around. And as a perfect example. I had to leave my public sector client due to IR35 issues 2 years ago. I start back with them on Tuesday back outside. Taken a year or two for them to get their head around it and start offering outside gigs but they did.

    Now how long that is going to be with the massive clients blanket banning PSC's I've no idea. I don't think it will be forever but it most certainly won't be what it was in the past (now).

    Have to say though, I never envisaged it would be this bad to be honest. I was optimistic this time last year but most of that drained out of me since then.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogerfederer
    replied
    Originally posted by BritishLad88 View Post
    Exactly, the fundamentals rules of determination haven't changed at all, just shifted focus towards the Clients to make the decisions. Like you say, if they get it wrong then they would be liable hence many of them are taking a risk adverse approach (in particular the big enterprises etc...). I still feel though there would be a small minority of smallr-med size companies willing to take outside IR35 contractors on though. In particular those who require a flexible workforce. But opportunities like these i feel would be more & more less in future.
    "More and more less?"

    A moreless future for us all!

    Leave a comment:


  • BritishLad88
    replied
    Originally posted by Hobosapien View Post
    I dunno, seem to have heard more about them deeming their own contractors outside IR35 than in.

    All the hoo-ha about IR35 and the private sector overlooks that the fundamental rules on what makes a contractor inside or outside IR35 haven't changed. They've just changed tactics on who makes the determination, which appears to be causing somewhat of a horse stampede amongst the easily scared managers that default to a risk averse position due to not understanding the rules enough. HMRC will be congratulating themselves on that, as like you say they are concerned with tax income rather than worker rights.
    Exactly, the fundamentals rules of determination haven't changed at all, just shifted focus towards the Clients to make the decisions. Like you say, if they get it wrong then they would be liable hence many of them are taking a risk adverse approach (in particular the big enterprises etc...). I still feel though there would be a small minority of smallr-med size companies willing to take outside IR35 contractors on though. In particular those who require a flexible workforce. But opportunities like these i feel would be more & more less in future.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hobosapien
    replied
    Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
    HMRC believe there are no genuine contractors.
    I dunno, seem to have heard more about them deeming their own contractors outside IR35 than in.

    All the hoo-ha about IR35 and the private sector overlooks that the fundamental rules on what makes a contractor inside or outside IR35 haven't changed. They've just changed tactics on who makes the determination, which appears to be causing somewhat of a horse stampede amongst the easily scared managers that default to a risk averse position due to not understanding the rules enough. HMRC will be congratulating themselves on that, as like you say they are concerned with tax income rather than worker rights.

    Leave a comment:


  • BrilloPad
    replied
    Originally posted by BritishLad88 View Post
    For a genuine contractor
    Another poster who does not get it. HMRC believe there are no genuine contractors. They want to decide what tax is paid, regardless of rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • BritishLad88
    replied
    Originally posted by sal View Post
    There is much more to contracting than net pay. I would rather eat my shoes, than going through weekly F2F and bi-annual development plan/review and begging for an annual leave approval
    I share same view. For a genuine contractor net pay is only one element of it. The thought of not doing F2F, bi-annual development plan/review is one reason drove to contracting first place. However, we can’t underestimate the financial gains that comes with it. It’s significant compared to perm.

    Having said that... for the non genuine contractors (disguised employees) *cough cough* they’re more concerned with the net pay! Also, you’ll find a lot of these types of contractors working for “big banks & enterprises” who need to beg for approval of their annual leave. Funny thing is they’re happy to work in this kind of working practice.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X