Reply to: Will contracting go out with a bang or a whimper?

[Hobosapien]

Yep, I spoke to lots of people, who pretty much confirmed that is the case.

So the client pays the travel expenses on top of a typical day rate to the supplier for each body placed?

Is this common or is it just some way of the consultancy mangling the overall day rate so the client still pays the same typical rate and the consultancy gets a bigger slice of it by charging the consultant for the travel expenses?

As a contractor I've never had that kind of 'perk' of expenses on top of rate, instead having to claim expenses from my LTD so comes out of the rate the client pays rather than on top.

My current client, with whom I've already exhausted the 24 month rule for expenses, does have some 'consultants' on site so will be interesting to see if this travel expenses on top of day rate from the client's perspective is in play.

[OnceStonedRose]

Has anyone had their Finance Director take a look and advise as to where they stand, I got onto mine, absolutely crumby national tax accountancy place, and received a moody excel spreadsheet IR35 risk calculator, and a pdf of a spunky page they had cobbled together showing the Provisional Incorporation Planner - 2016/17, which basically said, "yeah you'll have to pay a couple of grand dividend tax".

Hi OnceStonedRose,
Re the expenses, the third party rules don’t apply to people not caught by IR35 and we think you are ok for that, IR35 questionnaire attached to check.
I have also done a check (on XXk profit) on the attached to compare tax now and tax next year, you are still better off.
Finally see link to info on our web page to dividends changes http://www.wankynationaltaxaccountan...llowance/id/66
Hope that goes some way to help.

So glad I'm better off even after Gideons attempts to have my kecks down, nice try cocknosed chancellor of the exchequer ... phew.

[MrMarkyMark]

Very clever. So, they own a travel agency, insist on all their consultants working away and arrange their own travel, billing that back to the client, rather than simply the day rate of a local consultant? So, the tax payer is paying double bubble for every travelling Capita consultant on government projects. They'll obviously justify it with the old "no specialists in the area" tulip.

Yep, I spoke to lots of people, who pretty much confirmed that is the case.

[LondonManc]

Blimey, totally missed the point, not really lying, but, certainly sharp practice....

Capita has consultants based all over the country.
Allegedly, If you are based in London, you will find you are mostly getting gigs up North.
Allegedly, If you are based in the North, you will find you are mostly getting gigs in London.

Travel and deals for this mobility, all booked through Capita travel, all passed on to client.

Quids in

Very clever. So, they own a travel agency, insist on all their consultants working away and arrange their own travel, billing that back to the client, rather than simply the day rate of a local consultant? So, the tax payer is paying double bubble for every travelling Capita consultant on government projects. They'll obviously justify it with the old "no specialists in the area" tulip.

[MrMarkyMark]

right so they are pissing off their employees by sending them to the other end of the country?

And how are they quids in... by employing some people to book the travel and invoice an extra few quid as admin fees on those travel expenses?

sorry I am completely lost on this one.

Yes, they piss their employees off, by sending them to the other end of the country, needlessly.

i.e. a test manager based in Leeds will come down to London, a test manager based in London will end up in Leeds.

They make commissions on the hotels, travel tickets and spends in the hotel.

Imagine the discounts they get on everything, they then mark these prices up to their clients.
If you are moving people unnecessarily, that is profit you wouldn't have got.

I don't understand why you would be "lost", Capita Travel, are a very profitable business.

We're the largest UK-focused business travel and event management provider, with a turnover of £540 million and a team of over 900.

Get it now .

[MPwannadecentincome]

Blimey, totally missed the point, not really lying, but, certainly sharp practice....

Capita has consultants based all over the country.
Allegedly, If you are based in London, you will find you are mostly getting gigs up North.
Allegedly, If you are based in the North, you will find you are mostly getting gigs in London.

Travel and deals for this mobility, all booked through Capita travel, all passed on to client.

Quids in

right so they are pissing off their employees by sending them to the other end of the country?

And how are they quids in... by employing some people to book the travel and invoice an extra few quid as admin fees on those travel expenses?

sorry I am completely lost on this one.

[ShandyDrinker]

Not sure if this article has already been posted but an interesting take on T&S for contractors in the nuclear power industry:

Paul Murphy on how IR35 and T&S legislation could be disastrous for the UK

[MrMarkyMark]

Sorry, are you saying that they are committing fraud by lying about where their consultants are coming from, going out and buying rail or air tickets to show as an expense then claiming a refund on those rail or air tickets?

Given that any expenses charged to a client are normally the consultants own expense claim plus possible an admin fee I can't see how they can make a fortune without lying, if I am wrong please explain.

Blimey, totally missed the point, not really lying, but, certainly sharp practice....

Capita has consultants based all over the country.
Allegedly, If you are based in London, you will find you are mostly getting gigs up North.
Allegedly, If you are based in the North, you will find you are mostly getting gigs in London.

Travel and deals for this mobility, all booked through Capita travel, all passed on to client.

Quids in

[MPwannadecentincome]

Crapita have it cracked, further.
They have their own travel consultancy.

Client Co's, obviously, find that their Crapita consultant's all, strangely, come from the opposite side of the country, from where they are located .
Crapita travel makes a fortune out of this.

Sorry, are you saying that they are committing fraud by lying about where their consultants are coming from, going out and buying rail or air tickets to show as an expense then claiming a refund on those rail or air tickets?

Given that any expenses charged to a client are normally the consultants own expense claim plus possible an admin fee I can't see how they can make a fortune without lying, if I am wrong please explain.

[MrMarkyMark]

that our clients are our main place of work so why should we get T&S to go everyday... Which normal permies don't usually get.

We are nothing like "normal permies", especially you, NLUK
Would you call a consultant from <Insert any Consultancy Name Here> a "normal permie" then

I can't see HMRC truly believe anything different.

We also have to remember that most of the big 4 consultancies, are likely to make, make major donations to the conservative party.
Maybe that's what we need to do

I have no dog in this fight anyway, I work from home except for the occasional foreign trip.

Same here, being London based.
Still makes me really fume though, as I have plenty, from all over the country, sat around me.

[WordIsBond]

The point is to try to appeal to your MP in terms they can understand.

Exactly. It's not identical but it is similar enough to make them at least think about it.

I have no dog in this fight anyway, I work from home except for the occasional foreign trip.

[MrMarkyMark]

In fact the "level paying field" is worsened as currently the advantage I have in not charging my client for same T&S would be taken away whereas large Co charge their clients the same T&S on top of the inflated rates for supplying those permies.

Crapita have it cracked, further.
They have their own travel consultancy.

Client Co's, obviously, find that their Crapita consultant's all, strangely, come from the opposite side of the country, from where they are located .
Crapita travel makes a fortune out of this.

[BoredBloke]

Are you not muddying things using MP's as an example. The outcry is they are spending public money on expenses. It says nothing about them not being able to claim the tax back on it which is the situation with us. You can claim any expense you want from your LTD, you just won't be able to get the tax back on it after Apr 16.

The point is to try to appeal to your MP in terms they can understand. At the moment they just see us as tax abusers. The point is we need to be able to claim expenses in just the same way they do. Our expenses have to be incurred 'wholly and exclusively' just like theirs are supposed to be. The difference is that while they are able to claim for a role that might last 5 years, we might need to move every 6 months. Therefore there is no way you can expect a person to move their permanent residence, uprooting their family etc with each and every contract change.

[northernladuk]

Yeah, obviously I know that.

Look, you're an officeholder (director) of YourCo. Your MP is an officeholder.

He gets expenses, they are trying to say you shouldn't. It's that simple.

He has to travel, he says? So do you.

Even if you get expenses, they say you only get it for two years. He gets it for more as long as he does his "job".

He could move, of course. So could you. The ability to move is used to try to take away your expenses. Not his.

His employer does not require him to live in his constituency. If he chooses to live in his constituency (let's say Northumbria) and travel to London, how is that different from you choosing to live in Northumbria and travel to London where your company sends you to work?

He's under SDC. Government whips tell him how to do his job. If he doesn't follow along, he's likely to be out of a job before too long.

Are you not muddying things using MP's as an example. The outcry is they are spending public money on expenses. It says nothing about them not being able to claim the tax back on it which is the situation with us. You can claim any expense you want from your LTD, you just won't be able to get the tax back on it after Apr 16.

[Milkyway]

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...-400m-tax.html

Guys don't worry about t & s intricacies anymore
Gideon has one more plan coming up.
Read the above link.

Well, if this new proposal becomes law, then we have answer to all related threads like the current one.

Forget about 24 month rule, T & S, dive change etc, the new proposal is the "mother of all" killer proposal that will kill contracting industry overnight.