Reply to: ActiveX question

[d000hg]

The web is platform-agnostic by definition. Deploying a platform-dependent solution on the web is, by definition, fail.

Balls it is. There are still plenty of devices without JavaScript capabilities (older phones) or that cannot support AJAX. There are many devices which can't run Flash properly/at all (games consoles).

The web is just a place where data is stored... not some idealistic paradise.

[VectraMan]

The web is platform-agnostic by definition. Deploying a platform-dependent solution on the web is, by definition, fail.

That's lovely, but what's the alternative? Not everything is filling out forms and pressing submit (and if Tim Berners Lee had had his way HTML wouldn't even have had that).

YouTube serves a billion videos per day. I wonder if all those people care that they're betraying Berners Lee's vision of a truly platform-agnostic web?

[NickFitz]

It runs on Intel Macs, with Windows installed.

Correction: it runs on computers running Windows.

Apple hardware running Windows software is just hardware running Windows software. A Mac with Windows installed on a separate partition is a Mac "with Windows installed"; but when running OS X your "solution" wouldn't work.

The web is platform-agnostic by definition. Deploying a platform-dependent solution on the web is, by definition, fail.

Sir Tim Berners-Lee is going to come round your house and stamp on your kittens for this

[d000hg]

Great discussion. I hadn't realised NPAPI was doing the same kind of job as ActiveX, not in such a similar fashion anyway.

The 3DVIA seems to claim it supports Macs. I guess they must have a mac and windows version of the actual "application" and the correct one is downloaded based on some runtime detection? At least I think I'd have to do it that way since our app is C++ based.

At this point, I'm not looking to do the work, simply find out what is possible. I think I know enough to tell my client they can try and sell the idea... the fear was he might do this anyway and leave me trying to figure it out afterwards

[VectraMan]

Does it run on Mac and Linux? What about PowerPC Macs? Just curious

It runs on Intel Macs, with Windows installed.

I guess it might run with Wine under Linux.

[NickFitz]

I've got a DirectX application (but a 2D one) that runs with ActiveX on IE and NSAPI on everything else.

Does it run on Mac and Linux? What about PowerPC Macs? Just curious

[suityou01]

You've woken me up now - it'll take me ages to regain the mental stupor I was in before!

LOL

[voodooflux]

There you go, knew you could do it.

You've woken me up now - it'll take me ages to regain the mental stupor I was in before!

[suityou01]

Just reading around about NPAPI and it seems that M$ dropped support for it in IE6 I think?

Ah, found some more info here - seems it was dropped in IE5.5 SP2.

There you go, knew you could do it.

[voodooflux]

I stand corrected. It's been a few years since I've looked at any of this.

In my application, both the ActiveX OCX and NSAPI DLL load an additional DLL that does the actual work. So the same code runs in both, but with a thin wrapper that interfaces with the browser.

Yeah, makes perfect sense - just use ActiveX and NPAPI as the delivery/interface mechanism.

[VectraMan]

Just reading around about NPAPI and it seems that M$ dropped support for it in IE6 I think?

Ah, found some more info here - seems it was dropped in IE5.5 SP2.

I stand corrected. It's been a few years since I've looked at any of this.

In my application, both the ActiveX OCX and NSAPI DLL load an additional DLL that does the actual work. So the same code runs in both, but with a thin wrapper that interfaces with the browser.

[voodooflux]

NS plugins also work in IE (I assume they still do), so that might be the better approach.

Just reading around about NPAPI and it seems that M$ dropped support for it in IE6 I think?

Ah, found some more info here - seems it was dropped in IE5.5 SP2.

[VectraMan]

I've got a DirectX application (but a 2D one) that runs with ActiveX on IE and NSAPI on everything else.

ActiveX is pretty simple COM; just find a sample and copy it. I thought VS2005 had a project template for an ATL Activex control, but I've looked and it just has one for MFC, which is a possibility if you can put up with bloated nastiness.

NS plugins also work in IE (I assume they still do), so that might be the better approach. All you get for using ActiveX is the automatic download and install and the code signing stuff, which is exactly what people distrust about it all. But both run native code, so both are free to have their wicked way with your files and computer if they so wish. MS just tried to introduce a bit of authentication into the scheme and everybody winged, even though it is in fact more secure than the alternative. (Actually Netscape had a similar scheme, but that's been long forgotten).

The question is: do you want any casual user to be able to visit a website and see whatever content it is, or is it just for specific users? If it's just for users that have installed your software, then your install can install your NSAPI based DLL in the appropriate browser directories and Bob's your auntie's lover.

[voodooflux]

What I actually have is a 3D rendering engine written in plain old C++. Apparently you can embed this in ActiveX to do real-time 3D rendering using DirectX... at least I've heard so.

I know COM but never developed ActiveX controls so I'm not looking for coding tips, just thoughts about the process in general. I don't know if the plugin mechanism on Mozilla allows this, ActiveX may have its flaws but does give you unparalleled access to the PC (which IS the main flaw of course).

There are existing tools which do this such as 3DVIA:http://dl.3dvia.com/software/3dvia-player

I have no idea how they work (yet) but somehow they are cross-platform... you install some plugin and then off you go. The idea is to investigate if our cross-platform app can be wrapped in a similar manner.

The 3DVIA component for IE appears to be an ActiveX control, but I suspect (but can't confirm) that the Firefox version is based on the NPAPI, so you might need to consider both.

[voodooflux]

Not fussed really. I don't feel it added anything though. I'm just as pedantic trust me, so I'm grateful for the correction.

Not to worry - I'm not sure that adding something should necessarily be a pre-requisite to offering a techincal correction, but my inner pedant probably ran wild there for a moment. And you did kick my brain into (albeit limited) action