Reply to: Google Chrome

[VectraMan]

Eclipse runs ok on my 1Gig Athlon.

VS.NET 2005 I think.... it was horrible!

I'm using VS2005 on a project that ultimately needs to be compiled on VC6, because I much prefer the environment. It's a bit slow debugging, and uses more memory than you can possibly imagine, but there's enough other good things that make up for it. I was less fond of 2003 when I had to use that.

Sorry, more OT again.

[voodooflux]

Eclipse runs ok on my 1Gig Athlon.

VS.NET 2003 I think.... it was horrible!

Eclipse was always my preference over NetBeans, and it did have the performance edge - possibly due to its use of SWT. I still have painful memories of slowness though.

[Dark Black]

Tried running NetBeans or Eclipse on such hardware? Welcome to slowsville. Squared.

Out of interest what was the last version of Visual Studio .NET you tried? I had to use Visual Studio 6.0 the other day to do some maintenance on a VB 6.0 app - I was relieved to finally return to the comfort of VS2008.

Eclipse runs ok on my 1Gig Athlon.

VS.NET 2005 I think.... it was horrible!

[voodooflux]

Sorry.... I've rather pulled this a tad off topic...

Just a smidge

Visual Studio was great upto and including version 6. The .NET version are horrible, bloated and slow on anything more than a few years old.

Tried running NetBeans or Eclipse on such hardware? Welcome to slowsville. Squared.

Out of interest what was the last version of Visual Studio .NET you tried? I had to use Visual Studio 6.0 the other day to do some maintenance on a VB 6.0 app - I was relieved to finally return to the comfort of VS2008.

[Dark Black]

Sorry.... I've rather pulled this a tad off topic...

Since I'm here .. Agree about Java being flawed by not having a native compiler. IMHO that was a big mistake because as a language it was (is) spot on.

Visual Studio was great upto and including version 6. The .NET version are horrible, bloated and slow on anything more than a few years old.

Don't get me started on COM... I'd like to give whoever came up with that a damn good kicking....

Marginally back on topic - I find the Portable Apps version of Firefox works nicely and is also quick to load

[voodooflux]

The development environment and the development technology are 2 different things.

No kidding

I think nickfitz was having a pop at the .Net technology, rather than Visual Studio.....

I was using "environment" to refer to both (as my comments apply to both equally) although I did use the more applicable term "platform" later on.

[blacjac]

No he's not. Although he is right about some of the other stuff



I think that's very, very unfair. The .NET environment is the best development platform I've used on an M$ platform, and I've used most of them since Windows 3.0 (VB, C/C++, Java, etc.). It's not perfect, and it may be bloated in places, but shoddy it is not.

The development environment and the development technology are 2 different things.

I think nickfitz was having a pop at the .Net technology, rather than Visual Studio.....

[VectraMan]

.NET is pretty shoddy technology as currently implemented, despite all the attempts to patch it up. I realise that they were initially stuck with building it as a hack on top of the Win32 API, and therefore it couldn't be expected to be perfect in the first iteration. The problem is that they thought it would replace the Win32 API very rapidly, yet nearly a decade later, it's still reliant on, guess what... the Win32 API.

How else should it work? I guess MS could have linked the .NET runtime more into the lower levels of the OS, but I'm not sure that gains you anything over using the Win32 API. Or are you talking about things like the Windows controls and messaging system, because I thought .NET had its own, and isn't relevant to ASP .NET anyway.

[voodooflux]

He's right though... about the MS stuff.

No he's not. Although he is right about some of the other stuff

.NET is pretty shoddy technology as currently implemented, despite all the attempts to patch it up.

I think that's very, very unfair. The .NET environment is the best development platform I've used on an M$ platform, and I've used most of them since Windows 3.0 (VB, C/C++, Java, etc.). It's not perfect, and it may be bloated in places, but shoddy it is not.

[NickFitz]

I was kind of with you up until the MicroS**t (LOLZ) rant. Then I though 'oh god another foaming-at-the-mouth MS hater'. Your arguments from that point on were pretty much void.

He's right though... about the MS stuff.

.NET is pretty shoddy technology as currently implemented, despite all the attempts to patch it up. I realise that they were initially stuck with building it as a hack on top of the Win32 API, and therefore it couldn't be expected to be perfect in the first iteration. The problem is that they thought it would replace the Win32 API very rapidly, yet nearly a decade later, it's still reliant on, guess what... the Win32 API.

So it's still very much a hack. A much more polished hack, but it's still better conceptually than as implemented. The various shiny bits added to the C# language specification can't detract from the fact that ultimately, you're probably hitting COM somewhere down the line.

[bogeyman]

No, you are wrong - it has nothing to do with being jealous or resentful.

Nor does it have to do with arcane skills - I believe in the right skills for the job, regardless of them being old or the very latest technology.

What I don't believe in is technology for the sake of it. .NET is a case in point there, My background is C/C++. Java came along and did everything that C++ should have done in the first place but didn't quite manage so it added something to the industry and I love it to bits. .NET in the otherhand is a bloated, ill-conceived attempt by MicroS**t to take over over the development industry as a result I won't touch it with a barge pole and leave it to the script kiddies.

My point being that just because something is new or as "you" put it - 'technological advancement' doesn't necessarily make it better.

Do you really want to live in a world where everything is done by a single button push, where everyone has the same skill level?

Because I really don't... thanks.

I was kind of with you up until the MicroS**t (LOLZ) rant. Then I though 'oh god another foaming-at-the-mouth MS hater'. Your arguments from that point on were pretty much void.

[Board Game Geek]

Do you really want to live in a world where everything is done by a single button push, where everyone has the same skill level?

Because I really don't... thanks.

That sums it up nicely.

I'd call it the homogonisation of effort and initiative, sacrificed at the altar of apathy and self-abandonment.

[VectraMan]

What I don't believe in is technology for the sake of it. .NET is a case in point there, My background is C/C++. Java came along and did everything that C++ should have done in the first place but didn't quite manage so it added something to the industry and I love it to bits.

I have to disagree with your assessment of Java. Java offered much as a tidied up version of C++, but by tying it to a third party runtime rather than let it produce native code, it was never going to take the place of C++. Indeed if you look at the hype around Java when it first came out, you can only conclude that Java failed in all its objectives.

That was technology for the sake of it. It seems to have made a bit of a comeback in recent years, but perhaps only because universities started teaching it as an easier alternative to C++.

[Dark Black]

When you say 'old school', I think what you really mean to say is: -

"Look! I've spend years of my life learning this crap, and, even if the crap I know is now largely redundant, I resent anybody being able to achieve exactly the same result, without knowing all the redundant crap I had to learn."

EVERYTHING gets dumbed down.

There's a name for it. It's called 'technological advancement'.

An aeroplane with a 'fly' button would be ideal (in fact already exists, nearly).

A car with a 'drive' button would be even better, and safer, if the technology was up to it (and it will be in a few years time).

Do you buy your own crockery rather than making it on a potter's wheel and firing it in your own kiln? I expect a master potter would say that was 'dumbing down'.

I'm a pretty technical sort of hands-on chap, but even I can appreciate that not everyone has the time or desire to learn arcane skills and knowledge just to be able to accomplish everyday tasks.

Call them stupid and lazy if you like, but you just sound like someone who's jealously guarding their hard won, but obsolete and useless, knowledge.

These days I find I want to learn real-world, practical skills (like woodworking) rather than studying the latest .NET or Java techniques.

No, you are wrong - it has nothing to do with being jealous or resentful.

Nor does it have to do with arcane skills - I believe in the right skills for the job, regardless of them being old or the very latest technology.

What I don't believe in is technology for the sake of it. .NET is a case in point there, My background is C/C++. Java came along and did everything that C++ should have done in the first place but didn't quite manage so it added something to the industry and I love it to bits. .NET in the otherhand is a bloated, ill-conceived attempt by MicroS**t to take over over the development industry as a result I won't touch it with a barge pole and leave it to the script kiddies.

My point being that just because something is new or as "you" put it - 'technological advancement' doesn't necessarily make it better.

Do you really want to live in a world where everything is done by a single button push, where everyone has the same skill level?

Because I really don't... thanks.

[bogeyman]

How do I write a browser in FORTRAN IV again?



Me too... so that's gas & stick welding, with a bit of MIG thrown in...

Doesn't work quite so well with wood, but I'm slowly getting better.

Haven't got a FORTRAN one but I have a nice COBOL one but it needs to print out every page you visit using ASCII (errr EBCDIC) art, on greenline fanfold paper.

To click, you highlight the link with a fluorescent yellow Stabilo pen and send it to the punch girls down the hall.

Wood welding never really took off did it. Too much trouble sanding off the scorch marks.

p.s. somebody has apparently made a browser in cobol.net