Reply to: ‘Dog food’ software development.

[BR14]

Sorry, I was talking about GOOD developers.

[d000hg]

Nope. If the system is a hodgepodge of successive 'improvements' over the course of years, the developers create their own front or back doors and leave the crappy public UI for the rest of the users to suffer with.

Besides, there's more money in not fixing all the problems. Software houses make more money on the perpetual support contracts than improving their software.

Sorry, I was talking about GOOD developers.

[BR14]

I was happiest hacking tulip together in FORTRAN and assembler.

Dear dead days beyond recall.

I started in an engineering research lab, with Algol and Fortran. - BAL came later

[woohoo]

Nope. If the system is a hodgepodge of successive 'improvements' over the course of years, the developers create their own front or back doors and leave the crappy public UI for the rest of the users to suffer with.

Besides, there's more money in not fixing all the problems. Software houses make more money on the perpetual support contracts than improving their software.

You must have experience of some tulipty software houses.

[DoctorStrangelove]

I was happiest hacking tulip together in FORTRAN and assembler.

Dear dead days beyond recall.

[Hobosapien]

Isn't dog-fooding the principle that if your developers are forced to use the software, they will realise it's crap and fix it? That's a great thing to do because not only are they motivated to fix things for their own benefit but they are forced to understand the software in real world usage not just develop the bit they are assigned with no idea how it relates to the product.

Or is this a different thing with a very similar name?

Nope. If the system is a hodgepodge of successive 'improvements' over the course of years, the developers create their own front or back doors and leave the crappy public UI for the rest of the users to suffer with.

Besides, there's more money in not fixing all the problems. Software houses make more money on the perpetual support contracts than improving their software.

[BR14]

When job ads started asking for software engineers probably. Although programmer != Software engineer. Developer is closer. Programmers spend their time writing code and are happy. Developers spend their time wishing they were writing code.

i was happier as a systems programmer, rather than a 'enterprise systems infrastructure engineer' i have to say

[d000hg]

When did applications programmers become 'software engineers'?
about the same time that bin men became 'domestic waste disposal engineers' ??

Same crap, different title

When job ads started asking for software engineers probably. Although programmer != Software engineer. Developer is closer. Programmers spend their time writing code and are happy. Developers spend their time wishing they were writing code.

[d000hg]

Dogfooding in software engineering is developing software to scratch one's own itch, and then selling it to the broader market.

The argument/proposed benefit is that the team intrinsically knows the problem to be solved (and delivers something good).

That seems like the mirror of my description. Your scenario would inevitably involve developers using their own product but in my reading it comes from "eat your own dog food" ie you're eating what you make, not making it TO eat if you get the distinction.

I came across it on Joel on Software, he may have twisted an existing definition.

[MrButton]

Isn't dog-fooding the principle that if your developers are forced to use the software, they will realise it's crap and fix it? That's a great thing to do because not only are they motivated to fix things for their own benefit but they are forced to understand the software in real world usage not just develop the bit they are assigned with no idea how it relates to the product.

Or is this a different thing with a very similar name?

This was my understanding. And have seen it work well.

[BR14]

When did applications programmers become 'software engineers'?
about the same time that bin men became 'domestic waste disposal engineers' ??

Same crap, different title

[TheGreenBastard]

Dogfooding in software engineering is developing software to scratch one's own itch, and then selling it to the broader market.

The argument/proposed benefit is that the team intrinsically knows the problem to be solved (and delivers something good).

[d000hg]

Isn't dog-fooding the principle that if your developers are forced to use the software, they will realise it's crap and fix it? That's a great thing to do because not only are they motivated to fix things for their own benefit but they are forced to understand the software in real world usage not just develop the bit they are assigned with no idea how it relates to the product.

Or is this a different thing with a very similar name?

[PurpleGorilla]

‘Dog food’ software development.

Sounds more like dog sh!t software development.

[BR14]

So, still no change after 40 years then?
ho, hum