Contract to Perm With Delayed Start Date

[eek]

Are you going to get paid before April the 6th?

Doesn’t matter as it’s not a public sector client

[PaleDale]

So why have you declared your contract as outside if they won't?

Because the contract review I had done supports an outside determination.
I disagree with the client's inside determination, and as they have the final say come April, I'm leaving.

[PaleDale]

Are you going to get paid before April the 6th?

No, I'll receive payments after the 6th April.

HMRC have stated that the rules will only apply for services provided on or after the 6th April.

"
The new rules will apply to payments made on or after 6 April 2021 only where the services were also provided on or after 6 April 2021. Therefore, if a payment is made on 30 April 2021 and the services were provided from 6 April 2021 onwards, the whole payment would be within the rules.

If the services were all provided prior to 6 April 2021, but the payment was made on or after 6 April 2021, the payment would not be subject to the new rules.
"

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-status-manual/esm10001a

Edit: Up to date link.

[PaleDale]

On the face of it they aren't separate engagements. You are leaving so they have a hole to fill and that's with a perm. That said I think three months is more than enough time for a clients requirements to change and roles be created. A lot changes in three months so will be difficult for HMRC to argue the are contract to perm so think you will be fine. As long as they don't ask the client who says yeah, same role, just delayed. Highly unlikely. No one needs to know it's the same role with a delay. It still looks like a gap and a new role.

What will you be doing in the the three months in between?

That's what I was thinking, thanks for the input.

I'll not be doing any other work in the interim. Just going to spend some time with the family.

[LondonManc]

It is the same stuff, just a bit more senior.

Agreed, it's a blue chip company who wouldn't support an outside determination, so I'd be in hot water if challenged.

I'm wondering whether the 3 months break, which is way too long to look like a holiday, would be enough to show they are separate engagements.

So why have you declared your contract as outside if they won't?

[northernladuk]

Are you going to get paid before April the 6th?

[northernladuk]

It is the same stuff, just a bit more senior.

Agreed, it's a blue chip company who wouldn't support an outside determination, so I'd be in hot water if challenged.

I'm wondering whether the 3 months break, which is way too long to look like a holiday, would be enough to show they are separate engagements.

On the face of it they aren't separate engagements. You are leaving so they have a hole to fill and that's with a perm. That said I think three months is more than enough time for a clients requirements to change and roles be created. A lot changes in three months so will be difficult for HMRC to argue the are contract to perm so think you will be fine. As long as they don't ask the client who says yeah, same role, just delayed. Highly unlikely. No one needs to know it's the same role with a delay. It still looks like a gap and a new role.

What will you be doing in the the three months in between?

[PaleDale]

It is the same stuff, just a bit more senior.

Agreed, it's a blue chip company who wouldn't support an outside determination, so I'd be in hot water if challenged.

I'm wondering whether the 3 months break, which is way too long to look like a holiday, would be enough to show they are separate engagements.

[ladymuck]

I'd be wary. Just how different is the perm role? Completely different technology stack or same stuff, just a bit more senior?

Your accountants' opinion is likely to be trumped by the client's assessment of your working practises for the past two years. If it were challenged, you already know the client won't support an outside determination.

[PaleDale]

I’ve been contracting at the same client for 2 years, and I’m leaving today as they have issued me an Inside SDS.

The manager has offered me a permanent role in the team with a delayed start date of 3 months, and a different job title and description (still dev, more senior).

For what it’s worth, I’ve also had my contract reviewed by my accountants who said it is supportive of an Outside determination.

Do you guys think this is good enough to prevent retro taxation, or should I bench myself?