Reply to: Increasing HMRC revenue via IR35 changes is flawed

[LondonManc]

Can't beat a good dick-swinging comp on CUK. Very professional.

[mockedguy]

Out of those 30+ years I was contracting ~27 years. I could see which way things were going due to my research on CUK.

Long time. I've been an IT contractor longer than that, a lot of it overseas, not to mention a number of periods as a perm. I've always found times like this are a sort of natural culling process of contractors and agencies. I can see my accountants cr*pping themselves we are all going to go perm. Things will sort themselves out and pick up. The demand for IT skills will only increase.

Sadly your post is quite typical of the permietractor who does nothing to help anyone else. You reap what you sow.

Surprised you would state that after looking at your post history.

[LondonManc]

You mean https://twitter.com/KenBarnett15/sta...38731441963009

I expect it's going to be a lot more than just them...

Ah, that sounds like what someone paraphrased. There will be plenty from a Resource Solution database extract who are at just DB and Barclays to keep HMRC busy for years without needing to go beyond the general rule suggested in that tweet.

SELECT * FROM Employees /* LOL */
WHERE Type  = 'Contingent Worker' 
AND StartDate < '2018-04-06'
AND EndDate IS NULL
AND ContractStatus = 'Inside'

[BrilloPad]

Really? Who says? I've seen this throw at other come-and-go posters as well. Sorry, I've got a life outside of IT and the net, and don't have time to spend my own life trawling daily through every post to keep people like you happy (and yes, I always do a search before posting).


Pretty arrogant comment to make about someone you know nothing about. I was probably contracting in IT when you were still at school (see, we can all do it). I've done the calculations many times before, and got my accountants to do them, but always from the point of view of whats best for me. This time I was doing them from HMRCs point of view, as I had heard its all about collecting tax that "contractors" are avoiding, which is clearly not true.

One of the problems in IT is the number of judgemental people who think they are superior and 'judge' others based on a few snippets of info without knowing anything about them.

Its not me you should try to keep happy. It is yourself. And I think you mean contented rather than happy.

If you don't want to keep up to date then fine. You don't need to read every post - just dip in occasionally. I went permanent last year having contracted on and off since 1988. Out of those 30+ years I was contracting ~27 years. I could see which way things were going due to my research on CUK.

Sadly your post is quite typical of the permietractor who does nothing to help anyone else. You reap what you sow.

[mockedguy]

People should read CUK more

Really? Who says? I've seen this throw at other come-and-go posters as well. Sorry, I've got a life outside of IT and the net, and don't have time to spend my own life trawling daily through every post to keep people like you happy (and yes, I always do a search before posting).

any new poster comes along who has no idea

Pretty arrogant comment to make about someone you know nothing about. I was probably contracting in IT when you were still at school (see, we can all do it). I've done the calculations many times before, and got my accountants to do them, but always from the point of view of whats best for me. This time I was doing them from HMRCs point of view, as I had heard its all about collecting tax that "contractors" are avoiding, which is clearly not true.

One of the problems in IT is the number of judgemental people who think they are superior and 'judge' others based on a few snippets of info without knowing anything about them.

[dsc]

[...]and they will get even less from me, around £26,000pa less, if I switch to perm. Crazy.

How much more NI would you pay in a perm position?

[mockedguy]

I have been a perm for 7 years, a contractor for 10 and a recruiter for 3. I assure you, in most cases, inside iR35 still pays significantly more than perm equivalent. Indeed I was inside IR35 and was offered perm but declined having calculated an income drop of 23%.

Yes, I worked out I would lose around 15% net going perm, and also not have all the hassle of accountants, insurances and the risks.

But my questioning was about their reasoning behind how what I have been paying the govt will decrease by around 50%. I did some more detailed calcs and they will get even less from me, around £26,000pa less, if I switch to perm. Crazy.

[eek]

I've heard a rumour that the low-hanging fruit are expected to be included in the revenue figures. They regard low-hanging fruit, apparently, as those that have been at a client over two years and are now accepting an inside IR35 contract, logic being that were self-determining incorrectly and have actually always been inside IR35.

You mean https://twitter.com/KenBarnett15/sta...38731441963009

I expect it's going to be a lot more than just them...

[LondonManc]

I've heard a rumour that the low-hanging fruit are expected to be included in the revenue figures. They regard low-hanging fruit, apparently, as those that have been at a client over two years and are now accepting an inside IR35 contract, logic being that were self-determining incorrectly and have actually always been inside IR35.

[andydd68]

You will not go perm. You will continue as a contractor inside IR35 and that will increase their tax take

Well..maybe...a quick glance on here or Twitter shows many people are in same boat as me, that is, large gaps between contracts, many have had roles finish last year and have yet to find a new one, early retirement, work abroad or even sign-on...unless situation changes I plan to work a minimal amount, sign on in-between roles maybe..the tax take HMRC will be getting from me will definitely decrease...not to mention the knock on effect..not need for ltd company, banks account, accountant, etc

[LondonManc]

Any company that doesn't understand it's an IT company first and whatever it makes it's money from second isn't long for this world

Failed businesses:
eek's hairdressing salon
eek's windowcleaning services
eek's model agency
eek's apostrophe usage tutors
.....

[eek]

Exactly. Contracts in my skills area pay around £100K or £45-50K perm.

If you're happy to play the long game then doing a salary sacrifice will reduce your tax considerably.

And it's not a bad trade off if you don't have travel costs - max pension contributions in return for very little difference in rights compared to a permanent member of staff who has been there less than 2 years and probably less internal rubbish such as 360 appraisals.

[BrilloPad]

Exactly. Contracts in my skills area pay around £100K or £45-50K perm.

If you're happy to play the long game then doing a salary sacrifice will reduce your tax considerably.

I was looking at about a 20% cut. But saw the writing on the wall and got a 10% increase. People should read CUK more - incredible how many "contractors" do no research and have got no clue. I know that NLUK is always amazed when any new poster comes along who has no idea - I am sure one day he will get tired of it and let his anger show....

[SeededLoaf]

You will not go perm. You will continue as a contractor inside IR35 and that will increase their tax take

Exactly. Contracts in my skills area pay around £100K or £45-50K perm.

If you're happy to play the long game then doing a salary sacrifice will reduce your tax considerably.

[AnthonyQuinn]

I'm on the market atm and have been talking to a lot of agents and ex-colleagues the last couple of weeks. This is what I am hearing mainly:

• A lot of EU nationals who were just here for the money are leaving the UK if they can find something
• A lot of Brits are grabbing contracts outside of UK if they can
• Contractors are converting to perms en masse
• There are still Outside IR35 contracts coming up
• Clients are not sure what to do and sitting on roles atm

Sum total is HMRCs revenue from our skills base is going to DECREASE.

Arrogant bean counters who don't seem to understand the job we do and are turning us into glorified pizza delivery temps. I've been through many crashes, market forces will prevail in the end, I think its just going to be very ugly for 6 months. I wonder how HMRC are going to save face when they realise what a cluster f*** they've done.

I have been a perm for 7 years, a contractor for 10 and a recruiter for 3. I assure you, in most cases, inside iR35 still pays significantly more than perm equivalent. Indeed I was inside IR35 and was offered perm but declined having calculated an income drop of 23%.

Most contractors will bend over and go inside. Yes some will be lost to the UK as you have mentioned above. But its not as if there are lots of openings in the EU.