Reply to: SDS appeal template

[jamesbrown]

That's not what that guidance notes says though, does it?

Or do you think this means that the responsibility to deduct (but not pay) the taxes rests with the client if they don't respond within 45 days? I read it as they are then passed the responsibility to pay (and not just deduct) the taxes. I've not studied the draft legislation though.

The responsibility to correctly operate PAYE always rests with the Fee Payer, but the liability for any failure can fall elsewhere in the supply chain, depending on circumstances, and the definition of the Fee Payer also varies based on actions. In this case, the client is the Fee Payer until they satisfy their responsibilities w/r to the SDS, including any appeals. That’s what the guidance says (and the draft legislation too).

[Paralytic]

Taxes should be deducted according to what the Fee Payer deems is reality. Failure to respond timely to an appeal only changes the Fee Payer (if not the client) and hence the responsibility for deductions, not the deductions themselves.

That's not what that guidance notes says though, does it?

Or do you think this means that the responsibility to deduct (but not pay) the taxes rests with the client if they don't respond within 45 days? I read it as they are then passed the responsibility to pay (and not just deduct) the taxes. I've not studied the draft legislation though.

Failure to respond within 45 days will result in the worker’s tax and National Insurance contributions becoming your responsibility.

[jamesbrown]

Clients' responsibilities (my bolding):



April 2020 changes to off-payroll working for clients - GOV.UK

So, effectively, once the law comes into place, if someone appeals and does not receive a response within 45 days, the client/fee payer should not deduct taxes.

However, if this happens, I suspect the taxes will still have been deducted, the client will then terminate the contract and then the contractor would have to chase for the deducted taxes.

Taxes should be deducted according to what the Fee Payer deems is reality. Failure to respond timely to an appeal only changes the Fee Payer (if not the client) and hence the responsibility for deductions, not the deductions themselves.

[Paralytic]

Yes there's nothing at the moment that says what happens if no response is received in 45 days and what you can do if you're still not happy with the outcome.

Clients' responsibilities (my bolding):

You must provide a response within 45 days of receiving notification that the worker or agency disagrees with your employment status determination. During this time you should continue to apply the rules in line with your original determination.

Tell the worker if the determination has not changed.

Tell the fee-payer and the worker if the determination has changed.

Failure to respond within 45 days will result in the worker’s tax and National Insurance contributions becoming your responsibility.

April 2020 changes to off-payroll working for clients - GOV.UK

So, effectively, once the law comes into place, if someone appeals and does not receive a response within 45 days, the client/fee payer should not deduct taxes.

However, if this happens, I suspect the taxes will still have been deducted, the client will then terminate the contract and then the contractor would have to chase for the deducted taxes.

[Lockhouse]

I got given the results of an SDS questionnaire. Took me almost a whole day to collate, check and respond.

[ladymuck]

Yes there's nothing at the moment that says what happens if no response is received in 45 days and what you can do if you're still not happy with the outcome.

I demand an ombudsman is set up!

[northernladuk]

Like others I see it mainly as a futile exercise but it’s my right to be damned awkward as possible!

I don’t see the consequences if they just ignore the 45 days though

Personally, as crap as clients are putting people inside, just being damn awkward is only going is make things worse for the others that are left or come later. Clients can't be right happy about all the legislation as well but then the contractors start being arsey.

And being awkward when the legislation isn't even in place is.. Well.. Meh...

I guess if 45 days expires and they don't follow process you gotta report them to someone who doesn't really give a damn.

[SimonMac]

I'm not entirely sure legalisation needs to define what form the appeal should take.

I'd just write a letter referring to the SDS and the specific reasons that I disagree with it and why.

Then give the date 45 days hence by which a response is required.

Like others I see it mainly as a futile exercise but it’s my right to be damned awkward as possible!

I don’t see the consequences if they just ignore the 45 days though

[SimonMac]

????

I have a reputation in certain darker parts of the forum

[BR14]

Due to the OPs party trick of bearing his arse at Xmas does they've probably seen it already.

????

[northernladuk]

Stick your **** on client photocopier, place copy into client envelope, deliver via client mail system.

Job done.

Due to the OPs party trick of bearing his arse at Xmas does they've probably seen it already.

[jamesbrown]

Stick your **** on client photocopier, place copy into client envelope, deliver via client mail system.

Job done.

[northernladuk]

I really don't think the process was designed to challenge a determination in the hope they will reverse it and certainly not now when it's not even valid.

If you get offered a gig and at that point, or the minute you step on sites you issue it there is the 45 coo down plus time in negotiations. Client is gonna walk you before you even get close. It just doesn't work.

The only time I imagine it's going to work is to appeal historically like thst woman did to get her holiday pay. You start inside, over time as evidence grows and your working practices become clear you decide you are outside so appeal with the facts of the matter.

Appealing a decision which is based on working practices you haven't even seen yet is pointless.

Contractor : I appeal on some non tangibles I haven't seen yet.
Client : Tough.
Contractor : oh

[ladymuck]

I'm not entirely sure legalisation needs to define what form the appeal should take.

I'd just write a letter referring to the SDS and the specific reasons that I disagree with it and why.

Then give the date 45 days hence by which a response is required.

[Paralytic]

Has anyone seen a template that can be used to appeal an inside determination?

If not can I ask the collective to help form one?

I’m aware that a client has 45 days to respond to an we are 49 days away from the last working day before these changes take effect so I’m hoping something can be co-created over the weekend

The change in law is not in place yet. If the client gives a determination now (which is really nothing more than an opinion at present), and you appeal, then they do not have to ever respond.

The gov IR35 Guidance page does state:

A status determination statement issued before 6 April 2020 is valid under the new rules, if it contains the reasons for the conclusion reached.

But, again, since the law has not passed yet, that's just confusing things.