Reply to: Short term contracts outside of IR35?

[Grasser73]

In various perm positions...

From what I gather though, the issue with the blanket ban is that most contractors were disguised employees etc etc... therefore illegit in terms of IR35, and this was the point of the spear that started this whole charade (or partly at least) with NIC and tax evasion and all.

You meant, at least I hope, avoidance. If you don't know the difference then I despair.

[dsc]

Not so sure about that. I think clients will be much more risk averse than that.

I'm sure some (most?) contractors would probably flip when discovering that the role is inside (and I can't imagine it would take long to be told by the client, unless you are dealing with a clueless client - something not that uncommon I think), but I also wouldn't be surprised if some would just stay, especially considering the current market and how it's probably not going to get any better closer to April.

It might just play out that way in the end ie. agent advertises a role, says it's outside, client says yes, yes it's outside, you come in, everyone keeps repeating it's outside, you are happy you found something in the current market, then they tell you March that yes most likely you are outside, but would it be so bad if you were inside? after which you get told you are in, but the market is so tulipe, that you decide to stay anyways (especially if throw in a mortgage, wife + kids, car lease etc. into the mix).

[PeterSim]

If a contract is deemed inside. The employer will have to calculate paye tax and NI on an annual basis as that is how paye tax is calculated. If it is only a 3 month contract and I do 4 contracts inside per year each 3 months in length, all at different rates. The paye tax calculation will be completely wrong if each one taxes based on their respective rates on an annual basis.

Surely this is another reason why outside makes more sense for short term contract?

The know it all arrogance on this forum is like I've never seen before in my 20+ years on internet forums.

[northernladuk]

I'd wait till this change is rolled out in full in April and then assess how many true outside roles there is. I have a feeling that anyone looking desperately for contractors now is definitely going to say "outside" as they are well aware that "inside" will scare 95% of potential applicants.

Not so sure about that. I think clients will be much more risk averse than that.

[Skag]

I'd wait till this change is rolled out in full in April and then assess how many true outside roles there is. I have a feeling that anyone looking desperately for contractors now is definitely going to say "outside" as they are well aware that "inside" will scare 95% of potential applicants.

I actually heard that from a couple of recruiters: they say outside whereas in reality, it's inside. Dirty game though...

[dsc]

Thankfully I have managed to secure some outside IR35 work. I don't know how rare this is - fairly rare it would appear from the anecdotal evidence I have seen.

I'd wait till this change is rolled out in full in April and then assess how many true outside roles there is. I have a feeling that anyone looking desperately for contractors now is definitely going to say "outside" as they are well aware that "inside" will scare 95% of potential applicants.

[Skag]

You really need to do a lot more of your own research to make your own opinion. Your lack of knowledge about one of the big changes to hit contracting in 20 years is staggering IMO.

Forums are a great place to start though. I thought.

[northernladuk]

I'm reading this though...

“There is a positive…the opposite is also true. Clients who understand and have prepared will mean that contractors [using a PSC] on an outside IR35 [contract can likely] keep doing so.

“Overall though, it takes time for clients to adapt to change… [so] I’d expect to see the usage of limited companies reduce very slightly. But very quickly rise again.”

A quote from a recruiter who's only hope of surviving is it bounces back.

You really need to do a lot more of your own research to make your own opinion. Your lack of knowledge about one of the big changes to hit contracting in 20 years is staggering IMO. You really aren't going to begin to grasp the enormity and impact this is having by asking questions on this thread.

This is your career and livelihood on the line here so you do need to step up.

[Skag]

Then stop wasting our time and believe what you want to believe. Simples. I'm done.

Yoda said it best man...

[wattaj]

I'm reading this though...

“There is a positive…the opposite is also true. Clients who understand and have prepared will mean that contractors [using a PSC] on an outside IR35 [contract can likely] keep doing so.

“Overall though, it takes time for clients to adapt to change… [so] I’d expect to see the usage of limited companies reduce very slightly. But very quickly rise again.”

Then stop wasting our time and believe what you want to believe. Simples. I'm done.

[Skag]

I'm reading this though...

“There is a positive…the opposite is also true. Clients who understand and have prepared will mean that contractors [using a PSC] on an outside IR35 [contract can likely] keep doing so.

“Overall though, it takes time for clients to adapt to change… [so] I’d expect to see the usage of limited companies reduce very slightly. But very quickly rise again.”

[wattaj]

Right. So no more outside IR35 hiring then? And instead only umbrella for short term contracts?

Yes. Outside IR35 roles are likely to be few and far between in this brave new world. There may be some, but they are unlikely to be available to the majority.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Right. So no more outside IR35 hiring then? And instead only umbrella for short term contracts?

Thankfully I have managed to secure some outside IR35 work. I don't know how rare this is - fairly rare it would appear from the anecdotal evidence I have seen.

[northernladuk]

Right. So no more outside IR35 hiring then? And instead only umbrella for short term contracts?

For you? That is the best bet yes.

[Skag]

They won't. Clients will either hire FTCs or force contractors to work as "temps" via umbrella companies.

Right. So no more outside IR35 hiring then? And instead only umbrella for short term contracts?