Originally posted by WordIsBond
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Previously on "Client in Europe but work carried out in UK - is IR35 April 2020 relevant?"
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostFWIW, it would make no sense for an overseas fee payer to apply PAYE/NICs as though inside, as there are no employer NICs for an overseas company, ordinarily. Would make far more sense for the contractor to operate a DPNI scheme and pay EeNI + PAYE.
Many things in life make no sense. Tax authorities are involved in a disproportionately high percentage of them.
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Originally posted by WordIsBond View PostI've now wrapped up all UK contracts. I can get work overseas and that's what I'll be doing until the UK tax regime returns to sanity or until I retire. I'm assuming that liability lies with MyCo, whatever the legislation says, and ensuring working practices keep me outside and that I have a paper trail to prove it.
FWIW, it would make no sense for an overseas fee payer to apply PAYE/NICs as though inside, as there are no employer NICs for an overseas company, ordinarily. Would make far more sense for the contractor to operate a DPNI scheme and pay EeNI + PAYE.
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Originally posted by WordIsBond View PostThey can argue that if there is no enforceable liability on the client because the client is outside the UK jurisdiction that the situation devolves to what it is for UK employees of foreign companies. UK employees of foreign companies are personally liable to pay their income tax and their employee NI. Foreign companies don't have to withhold tax and make payments to the UK even if they have a UK employee.
I don't think the legislation as written permits this but I can see them arguing it and you'd have to defend it. Keep good evidence that you are outside of IR35 even with a completely foreign chain.
Will do.
Thanks.
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They can argue that if there is no enforceable liability on the client because the client is outside the UK jurisdiction that the situation devolves to what it is for UK employees of foreign companies. UK employees of foreign companies are personally liable to pay their income tax and their employee NI. Foreign companies don't have to withhold tax and make payments to the UK even if they have a UK employee.
I don't think the legislation as written permits this but I can see them arguing it and you'd have to defend it. Keep good evidence that you are outside of IR35 even with a completely foreign chain.
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Originally posted by WordIsBond View PostJust to be clear (JB alluded to it), you are not necessarily outside. That depends on contract and working practices, as always.
Yes, and to be clear from my side, my contract and working practices are Outside - which will certainly cover me to April.
But after April, your known unknowns aside (HMRC's efforts and trade deals), I am covered due to border restrictions.
However, I might ask why you believe that even IF the HMRC efforts and trade deals all magically come off, why they would then make the exception and say that I am personally liable, post April. Their entire thrust is to make the client liable post April.
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Originally posted by simes View PostThis is currently exactly my situation too Chimp.
I am told, and I believe, that HMRC's jurisdiction ends at the borders. They can't dictate what foreign clients do. Therefore, am Outside.
I've now wrapped up all UK contracts. I can get work overseas and that's what I'll be doing until the UK tax regime returns to sanity or until I retire. I'm assuming that liability lies with MyCo, whatever the legislation says, and ensuring working practices keep me outside and that I have a paper trail to prove it.
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Originally posted by simes View PostI do. Based in NL.
Just my opinion though. A bit like HMRC's opinion - it's not actually law
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Originally posted by simes View PostMany thanks for this.
As for the quoted bit... 'The HMRC to clarify anything' must surely be a contradiction in terms...!
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostIt is precisely the sort of small clarification that might be expected. If they do clarify, it will probably be to indicate that a wholly overseas supply chain follows the small companies route.
As for the quoted bit... 'The HMRC to clarify anything' must surely be a contradiction in terms...!
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Originally posted by ChimpMaster View PostDo you have an agency in between? i.e. might they be liable to provide the SDS to you?
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Originally posted by simes View PostThis is currently exactly my situation too Chimp.
I am told, and I believe, that HMRC's jurisdiction ends at the borders. They can't dictate what foreign clients do. Therefore, am Outside.
We'll see if the enacted legislation clarifies this. It is precisely the sort of small clarification that might be expected. If they do clarify, it will probably be to indicate that a wholly overseas supply chain follows the small companies route.
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Originally posted by simes View PostThis is currently exactly my situation too Chimp.
I am told, and I believe, that HMRC's jurisdiction ends at the borders. They can't dictate what foreign clients do. Therefore, am Outside.
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