Offpayroll

[inniAccounts]

Thanks everyone for chipping in with this, lots of shares on social media - it's appreciated.

We now have details for around 70 clients - we've added a stats page: Find fairer IR35 clients. OffPayroll.org.uk

Plus a new page to see recent comments coming in from contractors: Find fairer IR35 clients. OffPayroll.org.uk

[inniAccounts]

That's really naughty @Paralytic - you've misquoted me.

If you visit the site you'll see there's a clear option to select if clients are going permie only. Plus I've just dropped a change based on James' suggestion to clarify no PSCs.

When I said "At the end of the day, does it matter?" it was a reference to information coming directly from the contracting community, versus the page CUK are maintaining. They both have their place.

For example, the CUK list has 22 clients. Knowing Simon and his editorial team, I'm sure he's validated the information before it went live. The list on offpayroll.org.uk stands at 46 - but the source is first hand from the contracting community, so differing perspectives and validity.

[Paralytic]

Useful to have this list, but it's not strictly accurate.

The majority response seems to involve binning contractors, not "blanket" assessing them inside, i.e., there is no assessment.

Its not just inaccurate, its blatantly wrong. I'd be worried if that was my accountant.

At the end of the day, does it matter?

And even mores when they know it is wrong but still keep the information up and try to defend it as semantics.

[inniAccounts]

Provenance is a challenge. I thought about this a lot. it wouldn't have been difficult to better verify who was posting - I considered LinkedIn auth for starters (not perfect, but 90% better than nothing). BUT before building this many people had spoken to me on the basis of confidentiality - they knew what was happening, but couldn't share publicly.

The approach I've taken is to make it anonymous (bar the IP adderss) to get the insight flowing. Anything is better than nothing. And the risk of fake news is pretty low - it's just too boring to bother (don't quote me). Based on what's come in, I've started contacting media departments for an official statement - if/when they come in I'll share them back on the site. There's even a special icon ready to roll.

I take your point about the changes, appreciated... I'll take a look.

[jamesbrown]

the community says they're being blanket assessed inside IR35.

Sometimes, the community is an idiot.

[jamesbrown]

(Disclaimer - I made offpayroll.org.uk)

You say tomato, I say tomato. I think they're both based on insights from the contractor community to a greater or lesser extent - they have to be. We're trying to validate as much as possible, and when press offices come forward we'll post their replies.

I chat to contractors a lot, and most want to share information with one another to help - so that's why I put this together. If we were all 20 years younger we'd come up with a catchy hashtag and call ourselves a movement. How about 'Momentum'...? Oh, wait - that domain name has gone.

At the end of the day, does it matter? It's about the contracting community getting together and sharing information. It can help us to challenge agents, lobby MPs, point out shortcomings to clients or congratulate those who are doing IR35 well.

So how about we do something for the many, not the... Oh, wait... ;-)

James

You don't need to be defensive about it.

It's a useful service.

It would be even more useful if you had a category called "no more PSCs" or, rather, if you used your existing category better:

Permie roles only
All contracts are being replaced with permanent roles

It would also be useful if you provided more info. about provenance. A quote from your contracting made, Dave, has less credibility, for example.

[inniAccounts]

Fairly assessed inside IR35, blanket assessed inside IR35, no PSC policy: they all, at the end of the day, have pretty much the same negative impact on contractors. But two out of the three are more unpalatable than the other.

As pointed out above this is a community driven site - and in many, many cases the community says they're being blanket assessed inside IR35.

[eek]

(Disclaimer - I made offpayroll.org.uk)

You say tomato, I say tomato. I think they're both based on insights from the contractor community to a greater or lesser extent - they have to be. We're trying to validate as much as possible, and when press offices come forward we'll post their replies.

I chat to contractors a lot, and most want to share information with one another to help - so that's why I put this together. If we were all 20 years younger we'd come up with a catchy hashtag and call ourselves a movement. How about 'Momentum'...? Oh, wait - that domain name has gone.

At the end of the day, does it matter? It's about the contracting community getting together and sharing information. It can help us to challenge agents, lobby MPs, point out shortcomings to clients or congratulate those who are doing IR35 well.

So how about we do something for the many, not the... Oh, wait... ;-)

James

But there is a hell of a difference between Blanket inside determinations (which would be illegal under the legislation) and a corporate policy decision not to use Limited Company contractors (perfectly legal). Your website is currently listing companies of making blanket determinations when they have instead made a policy decision.

[inniAccounts]

Seems to be crown-sourced as well, so may not be accurate.

Another list here, which seems to be based on stated policy rather than hearsay:

Company positions on IR35 private sector reform April 2020

(Disclaimer - I made offpayroll.org.uk)

You say tomato, I say tomato. I think they're both based on insights from the contractor community to a greater or lesser extent - they have to be. We're trying to validate as much as possible, and when press offices come forward we'll post their replies.

I chat to contractors a lot, and most want to share information with one another to help - so that's why I put this together. If we were all 20 years younger we'd come up with a catchy hashtag and call ourselves a movement. How about 'Momentum'...? Oh, wait - that domain name has gone.

At the end of the day, does it matter? It's about the contracting community getting together and sharing information. It can help us to challenge agents, lobby MPs, point out shortcomings to clients or congratulate those who are doing IR35 well.

So how about we do something for the many, not the... Oh, wait... ;-)

James

[jamesbrown]

Seems to be crown-sourced as well, so may not be accurate.

Another list here, which seems to be based on stated policy rather than hearsay:

Company positions on IR35 private sector reform April 2020

[jamesbrown]

Useful to have this list, but it's not strictly accurate.

The majority response seems to involve binning contractors, not "blanket" assessing them inside, i.e., there is no assessment.

[MonkeysUncle]

So my accountants have created this site to get an idea of what companies are doing re IR35. Its already started getting some responses.

OffPayroll.org.uk

Quite useful I think to find out what some of the big companies are doing.