Reply to: Deemed payments

[CryingSheep]

Potentially. Would definitely need to be looked at carefully.




It could be argued that they're going from a temp workplace to another temp workplace.

Thanks


Zeeshan

If permies have a company car and company pays for their travel, probably you should have arranged similar benefit once you were caught inside. That or negotiate some kind of travel contribution from your employer. This will still be taxed as income, but would be some extra help to cover your expenses!

[DolanContractorGroup]

And I'm sure no-one would do that Would confirming the client list for the day be regarded as work?

Potentially. Would definitely need to be looked at carefully.

Well that's not what I was hoping to hear to be honest.

And yet the permies claim expenses for their company car trips from home to wherever.

To be honest, this is now a big worry.

It could be argued that they're going from a temp workplace to another temp workplace.

Thanks


Zeeshan

[Blert596]

Well that's not what I was hoping to hear to be honest.

And yet the permies claim expenses for their company car trips from home to wherever.

To be honest, this is now a big worry.

[Paralytic]

Hi Paralytic,

Some form of work would have to be undertaken at the client's site, otherwise it's just a sham setup to claim business expenses.

Thanks


Zeeshan

And I'm sure no-one would do that Would confirming the client list for the day be regarded as work?

[DolanContractorGroup]

It sounds like Blert596, if found inside IR35, needs to change his working practices and always travel to/fromn his client (employer) site before/after visiting the end-client site(s) (where the work is done).

This is assuming the distance to his employers office is less than the distance to the first end-client, and obviously needs to take into account if it is worth it for the extra travelling time.

There is also the question as to who would know if he didn't travel to/back to the employer site, but of course no-one would suggest not doing that but claiming as if he did.

Hi Paralytic,

Some form of work would have to be undertaken at the client's site, otherwise it's just a sham setup to claim business expenses.

Thanks


Zeeshan

[Paralytic]

It sounds like Blert596, if found inside IR35, needs to change his working practices and always travel to/from his client (employer) site before/after visiting the end-client site(s) (where the work is done).

This is assuming the distance to his employers office is less than the distance to the first end-client, and obviously needs to take into account if it is worth it for the extra travelling time.

There is also the question as to who would know if he didn't travel to/back to the employer site, but of course no-one would suggest not doing that but claiming as if he did.

[DolanContractorGroup]

Thanks..you've just increased my anxiety levels no end.

The way this works is I'm given a list of sites to do technical surveys on. I get the sites which are scattered all over Scotland, work out a schedule to attend them, and arrange with other subcontractors to meet on the sites at a certain time. I am usually on site for a max of 2 hours per site A before moving on to site B or C . The amount of sites per day will depend on various things like weather, current workload, travel time, and work required at the individual site. I have approximately 400 sites that are mine to deliver upgrades on.

I normally drive to site from home as going into the clients site is pointless and not required, and sometimes return straight home and write up the work done, or go into the clients office to provide an update and input data. There's no requirement for me to go to the clients office after visiting the sites. Unless something goes wrong I'd rarely revisit a site, and the only work I do on site is related to that specific site.

Depending on the amount of sites that need looking at I may work totally from my home or go into the office depending on how I feel basically.

I honestly don't see how that could be construed as travelling to a fixed place of work.

I dont claim mileage to and from the clients office when I do go in.

Hi Blert596,

Unfortunately, webberg is absolutely correct. If you're found to be inside-IR35 then expenses are no longer claimable as it's implied that you're also under SDC (supervision, direction and control of the client).

Under the old rules, the main place of work was considered to be your address (or the employer's address if an umbrella worker) and so any other workplace was considered temporary.

Under the new rules, the main or permanent place of work is the site that the work is carried out at (this could include your home), and any temporary workplace is the workplace other than your home or main worksite. But, the rules further go onto say that the first and last journeys (e.g. home to worksite 1, and worksite 10 to home) are discounted for expenses purposes as otherwise people working from home could still claim as they did under the new rules.

If you travel from home to worksite 1, and then from worksite 1 to worksite 2 and then worksite 3 and so on…. etc, the journeys from worksite 1 to the other worksites are claimable. But the journeys from home to worksite 1, and the last worksite back to home aren’t claimable unfortunately. HMRC has brought expenses in line with what we expect for permanent staff.


Thanks

Zeeshan

[Blert596]

That is a very difficult statement.

In theory your "normal place of work" should be easy to determine. In practice, roles that require attendance at different places create a raft of problems.

It's entirely possible for example that if you worked at place A on Monday, place B on Tuesday, place C on Wednesday etc, then each of those places are a "normal place of work" and the costs of travelling there and back from home, are not tax deductible.

If you go to place A and then to place B and then back home, travel home to A and B to home is also not tax deductible.

Thanks..you've just increased my anxiety levels no end.

The way this works is I'm given a list of sites to do technical surveys on. I get the sites which are scattered all over Scotland, work out a schedule to attend them, and arrange with other subcontractors to meet on the sites at a certain time. I am usually on site for a max of 2 hours per site A before moving on to site B or C . The amount of sites per day will depend on various things like weather, current workload, travel time, and work required at the individual site. I have approximately 400 sites that are mine to deliver upgrades on.

I normally drive to site from home as going into the clients site is pointless and not required, and sometimes return straight home and write up the work done, or go into the clients office to provide an update and input data. There's no requirement for me to go to the clients office after visiting the sites. Unless something goes wrong I'd rarely revisit a site, and the only work I do on site is related to that specific site.

Depending on the amount of sites that need looking at I may work totally from my home or go into the office depending on how I feel basically.

I honestly don't see how that could be construed as travelling to a fixed place of work.

I dont claim mileage to and from the clients office when I do go in.

[webberg]

The expenses are for travelling to and from sites to carry out work and not a place of work.

That is a very difficult statement.

In theory your "normal place of work" should be easy to determine. In practice, roles that require attendance at different places create a raft of problems.

It's entirely possible for example that if you worked at place A on Monday, place B on Tuesday, place C on Wednesday etc, then each of those places are a "normal place of work" and the costs of travelling there and back from home, are not tax deductible.

If you go to place A and then to place B and then back home, travel home to A and B to home is also not tax deductible.

[northernladuk]

I'd say no. It's still part of your travel costs and the location is now permanent so would think it wouldn't be allowed. Not had this question before that I can recall to be fair.

[Blert596]

I think you know this but that three months doesn't really help anything. You've still been there over 40% of your time over a rolling period. Three months isn't enough to make any difference to the rule.

Yeah, I haven't claimed since I found out I was going to break the initial 2 year period, and realise I haven't been away for long enough. One question I've never asked really is can I claim for parking over this new time if I'm not allowed to use the permies parking spots so am forced to park off site when I do go to the office?

[northernladuk]

I don't claim travel to and from work as I have been in the same location for over 2 years, although I had 3 months away working for another client (based at home) before returning to the previous client.

I think you know this but that three months doesn't really help anything. You've still been there over 40% of your time over a rolling period. Three months isn't enough to make any difference to the rule.

[Blert596]

the 5% allowance has been removed and expenses will not be allowed for those deemed caught by IR35. Also, you will not be able to reduce your tax liability by having pension payments deducted prior to taxes being calculated.

And yet both of those things are on the HMRC page that takes you through your deemed payment.

The expenses are for travelling to and from sites to carry out work and not a place of work.

[Blert596]

Regular travel to the same location on a daily basis cannot be deducted. Travel to temporary work places, such as site visits described in this thread, would be valid expenses that can be reclaimed.

Yeah, I go to up to 4 unmanned sites a day for tech upgrade visits, and I determine the schedule to suit me and just tell the design guys to turn up then. I can be out all 5 days a week or as little as one depending on how I want to progress the paperwork that cant be done on site.

I use my own car and the client doesn't reimburse me for mileage and I just claim it at the 45/25 rate. The permies have company cars.

I don't claim travel to and from work as I have been in the same location for over 2 years, although I had 3 months away working for another client (based at home) before returning to the previous client.

[DeludedKitten]

the 5% allowance has been removed and expenses will not be allowed for those deemed caught by IR35. Also, you will not be able to reduce your tax liability by having pension payments deducted prior to taxes being calculated.

Regular travel to the same location on a daily basis cannot be deducted. Travel to temporary work places, such as site visits described in this thread, would be valid expenses that can be reclaimed.