Reply to: RBS, contractors and IR35

[ascender]

Just a rumour. The ones I know have been extended to Feb 28th. To be extended beyond that, they have to either go agency PAYE, or choose an Umbrella from the agency PSL, with the decision provided to the agency by the middle of February (though I’ve also heard it must be done my middle of January)

Thanks for clarifying. Rumour was my first reaction as when I've been there in the past its been rife for the silliest little thing getting spread around amongst contractors as it it was the gospel truth. Worse than a bunch of gossipy women.

[Paralytic]

Talking to a couple of friends who are with RBS and they've been told no contracts will be extended past the end of February at the time being (which has been the case for some time). Obviously the new regulations come in from April, but they're starting to wonder if the bank are going to try and get them to take March off to save a wedge of cash (real reason) and to allow time for all the paperwork to be sorted out (bull$hit reason).

Has anybody heard anything about this or is it just a rumour at the moment?

Just a rumour. The ones I know have been extended to Feb 28th. To be extended beyond that, they have to either go agency PAYE, or choose an Umbrella from the agency PSL, with the decision provided to the agency by the middle of February (though I’ve also heard it must be done my middle of January)

[BrilloPad]

They are doing your friends a favour. Payments must be received by 5th April.

Chap I work with is friends with a director at HSBC. They want all the contractors out. They will offshore most, get in a few permies for the rest. General feeling is they are divas.

[ascender]

Talking to a couple of friends who are with RBS and they've been told no contracts will be extended past the end of February at the time being (which has been the case for some time). Obviously the new regulations come in from April, but they're starting to wonder if the bank are going to try and get them to take March off to save a wedge of cash (real reason) and to allow time for all the paperwork to be sorted out (bull$hit reason).

Has anybody heard anything about this or is it just a rumour at the moment?

[GhostofTarbera]

What's more ridiculous is the idea that anything would be completed in four months at RBS..

Indeed, 4 months of waiting around with a full project team doing nothing waiting for 3 permies to finally turn up to there weekly meeting and approve a 2 month project in my best one ever at RBS


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[KinooOrKinog]

Agent: "hey PCTNN we've got a 4 month contract with rbs, are you available? You're perfect for the role"
PCTNN: "hello agent, not available at the moment, I will be available from January 2020. If, as you say, I am perfect for the role, maybe the client can wait a couple of months?"
Agent: "not possible, sorry, contract absolutely needs to be finished by end of February."
PCTNN: "oh well, that's a shame. Nevermind then"
Agent: "by the way, are you operating via ltd?"
PCTNN: "nope, umbrella company here"
Agent: "ok, client can wait. when can you interview?"

What's more ridiculous is the idea that anything would be completed in four months at RBS..

[GhostofTarbera]

Agent: "hey PCTNN we've got a 4 month contract with rbs, are you available? You're perfect for the role"
PCTNN: "hello agent, not available at the moment, I will be available from January 2020. If, as you say, I am perfect for the role, maybe the client can wait a couple of months?"
Agent: "not possible, sorry, contract absolutely needs to be finished by end of February."
PCTNN: "oh well, that's a shame. Nevermind then"
Agent: "by the way, are you operating via ltd?"
PCTNN: "nope, umbrella company here"
Agent: "ok, client can wait. when can you interview?"

Lol


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[PCTNN]

RBS have just announced no more limited company contractors from February 28th 2020...

Agent: "hey PCTNN we've got a 4 month contract with rbs, are you available? You're perfect for the role"
PCTNN: "hello agent, not available at the moment, I will be available from January 2020. If, as you say, I am perfect for the role, maybe the client can wait a couple of months?"
Agent: "not possible, sorry, contract absolutely needs to be finished by end of February."
PCTNN: "oh well, that's a shame. Nevermind then"
Agent: "by the way, are you operating via ltd?"
PCTNN: "nope, umbrella company here"
Agent: "ok, client can wait. when can you interview?"

[Sparky25]

And most will as no other options in banking sector

The games up


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To be honest I think you are going to see a lot more than the banking sector hit. I am not as optimistic as some. What is happening here is no mistake. Hammond knew damned well that the forcing of liability to the client would make big business baulk. We only had our liability GSK suddenly has the liability of some 1500 contractors, Business is inherently risk-averse, this is nothing less than the total destruction of the contracting market as we know it.

The fact is most companies have decided to take on contractors in bums on seats models. The agencies facilitated it and we as contractors made hay. Now that model isn't going to wash. We need to be engaged as consultancies. Unfortunately business doesn't want to do that, they want to use large consultancies charging 3 times as much, what business wants it to have the cheapness of contractors without long term commitment to staff. Well thats just been made obsolete. So either hire us in a consultancy model or just accept this type of working is finished.

[GhostofTarbera]

Unlike some of the other Banks, it doesn't look like RBS are going to have some sort of initiative to offer contractors the opportunity to go permanent. Permie roles can still be offered, but subject to current headcount and budgets, so I guess they're banking on most contractors just sucking it up and going umbrella.

And most will as no other options in banking sector

The games up


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[ascender]

Unlike some of the other Banks, it doesn't look like RBS are going to have some sort of initiative to offer contractors the opportunity to go permanent. Permie roles can still be offered, but subject to current headcount and budgets, so I guess they're banking on most contractors just sucking it up and going umbrella.

[GhostofTarbera]

I hear from a source at the bank, unlike Lloyd’s some RBS contractors will be able to continue as before if they get a director level sign off but that will be for golf buddies etc


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[Paralytic]

RBS have just announced no more limited company contractors from February 28th 2020...

Old news

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2690166

[boxingbantz]

RBS have just announced no more limited company contractors from February 28th 2020...

[JohntheBike]

Agreed. A lot of the above is relevant to people looking at/for new contracts right now.

The uncertainties around the position post payments from April 2020 have the distinct probability to be a breeding ground for problems of the future.

Many end clients seem to be making noises about reducing contractors and either reducing overall headcount or biting the bullet and having permanent employees. That has the advantage of certainty but perhaps a disadvantage in terms of work getting done and cost. (I hesitate to suggest it, but perhaps also a contractor is more committed to getting the job done than a "permie"?)

Agencies are seeing the end of the gravy train and are reshaping their business into a "services" provider or the better ones are working with their end clients to make sure that those who continue contracting post April next, really are outside IR35. I think many agencies at the mid/small level don't yet appreciate that their financial risk is increasing and that the approach many have/had to IR35 assessment from the past 19 years is no longer adequate.

Contractors are naturally looking out for themselves but for many the switch to employee (or being taxed as though they are) will be unwelcome for financial or personal reasons.

Into this will come "advisers" with ideas which magically retain most of the present day rates/take home etc whilst of course being "compliant".

These are what I see as the picture items and I am of the view that whilst we may well see challenges over ET/FTT definitions being brought in both Tribunals, if a contractor/end client relationship has led to that, something has gone wrong.

Have there been any issues in the public sector where tax and NI have been deducted for work done prior to the cutoff? i.e. has anyone challenged that in the courts? What has happened to agency payments, from clients, which can be on 90 day terms?