Reply to: Survey on the impact of public sector IR35

[malvolio]

The survey has been updated to better reflect what they are trying tho find out. Perhaps people can give it another try. TIA

[Hobosapien]

So don't. Pretend you still run a Ltd Co and then answer the questions...


What none of the local keyboard warriors are realising is that HMG won't take any notice of anything that isn't evidenced in a form they understand (which rather limits things). The survey is flawed but it's the only one trying to establish a baseline to defeat HMRC's assertion that there has been no impact form the PS changes.

As for "keeping you head down", well that's just pathetic.

Are they going to survey the PS clients too? As that is where the real pressure is going to be felt by HMRC if the PS find it a problem (e.g. in rate uplift demands to offset IR35 and lack of expenses etc, and drop in contractors willing to entertain PS contracts at all) and want the situation improving.

[TheFaQQer]

The aim of the survey was to exclude people who were working through an umbrella company when the rules came in, because they wouldn't have been caught by IR35 anyway as they were employees.

However, the survey is not intended to exclude those who were working through a limited company before the rules, and who are now working through an umbrella company. The appropriate people are currently tweaking the survey wording to make this clearer.

To date there have been around 500 responses, which given that the survey only went live last night is a great sign that people are wanting to share their experiences to help the entire community form some evidence-based arguments against this.

Those who have already replied and completed the survey accurately, thank you. If you are affected, then I would wait a little while and then have another go at the survey once the guidance / wording / questions have been looked at (I do not know the precise details of what the current / previous / future survey contained).

[malvolio]

Right, but I think there's some constructive criticism too. I think it would help for the preamble to paraphrase what you state above, i.e. "If you have worked via a Ltd. company for a PSB over the last two years...". It would be better to remove the logic that kills the survey and instead record the current mode of operation (umbrella, Ltd., back to permie...). I haven't looked at the questions that follow, but I think it would help to distinguish responses based on a shift from Ltd. (a requirement to complete the survey) to something else. More data is generally better, because you can disaggregate ex post.

The problems have been flagged to IPSE's people. I hope they will take notice.

[jamesbrown]

So don't. Pretend you still run a Ltd Co and then answer the questions...


What none of the local keyboard warriors are realising is that HMG won't take any notice of anything that isn't evidenced in a form they understand (which rather limits things). The survey is flawed but it's the only one trying to establish a baseline to defeat HMRC's assertion that there has been no impact form the PS changes.

As for "keeping you head down", well that's just pathetic.

Right, but I think there's some constructive criticism too. I think it would help for the preamble to paraphrase what you state above, i.e. "If you have worked via a Ltd. company for a PSB over the last two years...". It would be better to remove the logic that kills the survey and instead record the current mode of operation (umbrella, Ltd., back to permie...). I haven't looked at the questions that follow, but I think it would help to distinguish responses based on a shift from Ltd. (a requirement to complete the survey) to something else. More data is generally better, because you can disaggregate ex post.

[malvolio]

If you go through the first question and select umbrella it stops there.

So don't. Pretend you still run a Ltd Co and then answer the questions...


What none of the local keyboard warriors are realising is that HMG won't take any notice of anything that isn't evidenced in a form they understand (which rather limits things). The survey is flawed but it's the only one trying to establish a baseline to defeat HMRC's assertion that there has been no impact form the PS changes.

As for "keeping you head down", well that's just pathetic.

[Hobosapien]

If you go through the first question and select umbrella it stops there.

Rain stopped play. It's just not cricket.

[psychocandy]

I wonder if that's really the intention though. It might just be a poor choice of wording in the preamble...

TF?

If you go through the first question and select umbrella it stops there.

[northernladuk]

Sorry I started a new thread on this.....

Idiotic to exclude umbrella. If you move to a PS Inside IR35 gig far and away the easiest way to proceed is via umbrella. Having an existing ltd, I looked into this in detail and in the end it just was not worth the hassle and cost of doing it this way. Better to just put the ltd on hold for this gig....

So, IR35 made me change my way of working. But I'm excluded from the survey. Nuts.

Pretty sure there are going to be a lot of people like me.

PC. Don't you answer question 1 as 'Employed by someone else' and the survey ends?

[northernladuk]

Pretty sure there are going to be a lot of people like me.

Rest assured PC. There is no one else like you....

[Hobosapien]

Sorry I started a new thread on this.....

Idiotic to exclude umbrella. If you move to a PS Inside IR35 gig far and away the easiest way to proceed is via umbrella. Having an existing ltd, I looked into this in detail and in the end it just was not worth the hassle and cost of doing it this way. Better to just put the ltd on hold for this gig....

So, IR35 made me change my way of working. But I'm excluded from the survey. Nuts.

Pretty sure there are going to be a lot of people like me.

Indeed. I too have put my Ltd on hold while using a brolly for PS IR35 contract.

Though I am not bothered at all about AIPSE and their survey. I have about as much faith in them accomplishing anything regarding this as praying to the tooth fairy to pay me in bitcoins.

Besides I'm a tinfoil hatter in that any data showing contractors that have changed behaviour due to recent changes to PS and IR35 will be seen as an easy target by HMRC for IR35 investigations.

[jamesbrown]

So, IR35 made me change my way of working. But I'm excluded from the survey. Nuts.

Pretty sure there are going to be a lot of people like me.

I wonder if that's really the intention though. It might just be a poor choice of wording in the preamble...

TF?

[psychocandy]

Sorry I started a new thread on this.....

Idiotic to exclude umbrella. If you move to a PS Inside IR35 gig far and away the easiest way to proceed is via umbrella. Having an existing ltd, I looked into this in detail and in the end it just was not worth the hassle and cost of doing it this way. Better to just put the ltd on hold for this gig....

So, IR35 made me change my way of working. But I'm excluded from the survey. Nuts.

Pretty sure there are going to be a lot of people like me.

[jamesbrown]

It might be worth broadening this out.

You must have worked on a public sector contract in the last two years and operate via a limited company or limited liability partnership to qualify for this survey.

One of the issues with being caught is that it probably doesn't make sense to operate via a Ltd., so many won't.

[northernladuk]

Hmm. I had a go and got to about 50% but it's not very straight forward for my situation. One client just before and one after. The questions seem to lean to those that were at the same client over the change. Asking about how it changed the gig which I don't know. I'll have another stab at it tomorrow.