Reply to: Are they PS?

[northernladyuk]

If you know the name of the client (!) then you could ring them and ask someone whether they are subject to FOIA or not. Of course, that hinges on the agent telling you who the client is in the first place, and then speaking to the right person at the housing association.

Put in an FOI request and see what happens.

[Seahorse17]

FWIW, the housing association had to get legal advice on this (they didn't know if the were covered by FOIA? ) and they're not. So happy days.

[northernladuk]

Thank you. Guess I'm going to to have to push agent to ask. They were typically clueless. It's a potential contract at this stage, but I'm not playing under the new rules.

Did you check this sticky?

http://forums.contractoruk.com/publi...ector-not.html

[TheFaQQer]

Thank you. Guess I'm going to to have to push agent to ask. They were typically clueless. It's a potential contract at this stage, but I'm not playing under the new rules.

If you know the name of the client (!) then you could ring them and ask someone whether they are subject to FOIA or not. Of course, that hinges on the agent telling you who the client is in the first place, and then speaking to the right person at the housing association.

[Seahorse17]

Thank you. Guess I'm going to to have to push agent to ask. They were typically clueless. It's a potential contract at this stage, but I'm not playing under the new rules.

[TheFaQQer]

Similar question about a housing association - some seem to be public sector, others aren't - how do I find out if the one I'm interested in is?

Additionally, you can try to work it out from the definition here.

Schedule 1 of FoI contains a list of bodies that are affected - some by name, most by type of body (which doesn't necessarily help you in your case). If the housing association is wholly owned by a public sector body then you need to consider section 6 of FOIA.

The example given highlights services for social housing - if the LA has transferred their responsibility to a private company which is still wholly owned by the authority then that company needs to respond to FOI requests and so would be affected by this legislation. If the company is wholly owned by multiple public sector bodies then they still fall inside FOIA so would be caught by the changes.

A document about it can be downloaded here, which may be of some help to you.

[TheFaQQer]

Similar question about a housing association - some seem to be public sector, others aren't - how do I find out if the one I'm interested in is?

Welcome!

I think that you probably need to ask the agent or the client directly whether they are subject to FoI - as you say, some of them are and some of them aren't. Unfortunately, there isn't a central database of organisations who are subject to FoI.

Unfortunately at the moment, there seems to be even more confusion about who is and who isn't caught (organisations not just individuals), and it's likely to get worse over the next months until organisations realise that they fall under the scope of the new legislation or not.

[Seahorse17]

Did you read the OPs post?

I'll save you the trouble

I'm aware of that. So how do I find out if a specific housing association is subject to FOIA?

[MrMarkyMark]

Similar question about a housing association - some seem to be public sector, others aren't - how do I find out if the one I'm interested in is?

Did you read the OPs post?

I'll save you the trouble

Right so, have read an IPSE article and had a bit of a trawl around here, including a look at the classification spreadsheet NUK posted link to. I'm still struggling to really pin this down though. Apologies in advance if there is a post somewhere that answers this...

I've been contracting for a Growth Hub (eg: https://www.lepnetwork.net/growth-hubs/) for 6 months, with contract finishing end March. They want to extend me for another 6 months on same basis which I'm more than happy to do.

I had assumed they weren't public sector (my understanding was they were a private non-profit organisation who just happen to utilise public funding (ERDF etc) to fund their services) but I hadn't realised the definition was based on FOIA. My contract specifically mentions needing my ltd to be able to respond to FOI requests, which makes me think they must be responding to them. Does anyone know whether these Growth Hubs are classified as PS or not? Is there such a thing as an organisation choosing to respond to FOI requests (because of their funding streams) but not being obliged to (and therefore not technically a PS)??! (yeah ok I'm clutching at straws I think!).

They haven't said a single thing about it which makes me think either they just don't know anything about this change, or they don't believe they are categorised as a PS (which may or may not be accurate). If they don't believe they are PS, and we all progress on that basis, but then they realise they are later down the line, I'm assuming I'm screwed anyway right? eg: just because they didn't realise doesn't mean I'm ok??

Cheers all!

[Seahorse17]

Similar question about a housing association - some seem to be public sector, others aren't - how do I find out if the one I'm interested in is?

[matty]

Complex stuff this contracting innit :|

Well it's all fun and games

[northernladuk]

Complex stuff this contracting innit :|

[matty]

Good news!

Good news. Spoke to their procurement chap and confirmed they are a Ltd themselves, wholly private, so no issue.

For anyone interested...

The reason they have some FOI-esque stuff in contracts is because they use public funding to provide their services. So if a FOI request came in to one of their public funders asking about anything in supply chain then that funder is obliged to respond and might need information from supply chain to support. So it's in the growth hub contract with their funders, and therefore is in all their supplier contracts also. But they themselves are not obliged to respond to FOI requests made directly against them, and indeed have rejected some in the past.

In the same way, they follow the principles of public procurement (like if I want to book a meeting room for a workshop on my project, I have to go and get 3 quotes, which is fun!) - they have no obligation to do so, but in effect they choose to as it makes them squeaky clean to the funders.

Also spoke to someone via the IPSE legal helpline which was really useful backup to this.


Right back to do some actual work...
Cheers ears.

[matty]

Have you asked them?

Not yet, unfortunately only (by chance really) stumbled on this FOI bit late last night. Just thought a quick punt here was worth it in case anyone else had already worked for a growth hub somewhere and might already know. Sounds like safest to ask them and maybe even if they're not strictly PS, because they do seem to be responding to FOI will need them to document that the contract isn't IR35. Which could be fun as I'm not sure they even understand it!

[Lance]

if they are PS and you have some influence you just make sure they declare you as outside. If they don't have many contractors that should be pretty straightforward.