Reply to: So, what's happening with BG/WTT?

[cojak]

I am closing this thread.

Criticism of webberg is one thing - libel is another.

Ditto of Matt Hall.

[TheDogsNads]

I don't know how long MH, and the other groups, have been in litigation, but it does seem WTT are last to get anywhere near a court.

MH's spanner might just turn out to be a positive thing. Sometimes organisations, and their leaders, need a kick up the arse.

There's a lot you clearly 'dont know.' I would have thought knowing how long groups have been in litigation would be one of the first things you should know. The fact you registered in 2009 and still seem to be in the dark on this, is even more surprising. Except it isnt.

[DealorNoDeal]

Just to put this into a bit of context, do you realise how many years it has taken for him to get to this stage ? Purely down to how HMRC like to stall, stall and stall some more. I think even MH would agree that WTT or any other tax advisors for that matter would have been able to get to court any quicker.

I don't know how long MH, and the other groups, have been in litigation, but it does seem WTT are last to get anywhere near a court.

MH's spanner might just turn out to be a positive thing. Sometimes organisations, and their leaders, need a kick up the arse.

[piebaps]

can you elaborate on the "proper channels". If a scheme/cult is acting inappropriately, then a proper channel is not internal to that scheme. WTT have closed down their forum, meaning members have no place to share concerns.

You could ring WTT. If there's a whiff of some kind of con, WTT are members of the Chartered Institute of Taxation and perhaps a complaint to CIOT would be in order. Professional Standards | Chartered Institute of Taxation

Graham said from the very beginning it would take 5 years https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...big-group.html see page one of the thread. Allowing for the set up time, we're approaching 5 years now.

All this sudden hostility is a little puzzling to be honest. If you're not happy with BG, just bail out.

[dammit chloe]

Just to put this into a bit of context, do you realise how many years it has taken for him to get to this stage ? Purely down to how HMRC like to stall, stall and stall some more. I think even MH would agree that WTT or any other tax advisors for that matter would have been able to get to court any quicker.

6 years IIRC. But that is also the point. WTT are only just attempting to go to court. Draw your own conclusions.

[regron]

I agree. I almost joined BG but something didn't feel right. Maybe it was speaking to 3 different WTT people and getting 3 different answers. Maybe it was all the jawjaw, while what was needed was warwar. Maybe it was the joining fee which would be fine if there was previous victories to benefit from.

Anyway, IMO, they waited so long that there were always behind the action when there may been an opportunity to take the shot.

It is one facet where I have to acknowledge Matt Hall's efforts. He is taking real action in real courts.

Just to put this into a bit of context, do you realise how many years it has taken for him to get to this stage ? Purely down to how HMRC like to stall, stall and stall some more. I think even MH would agree that WTT or any other tax advisors for that matter would have been able to get to court any quicker.

What I would ask is how many who are looking forward to the final result of the MH case have actually invested some money into it ? For clarity, I have ! However, I would put a wager on there being plenty who are hanging off the coattails of others, it seems to be the contractor way ! I just hope that those who haven't invested, are not the ones throwing mud around in an attempt to taint others.

There are plenty out there who for instance refused to donate to the Loan Charge, stating it would be a waste of time and money. Move forward to the Morse review and I am sure some who felt that way, now find themselves in a better position which may improve even further once the Finance Bill has been given Royal Assent.

I guess what I am trying to say is people make their choices based on the options available to them, people have opinions on those options and will either agree, or disagree and all of that is fine. However, it has gone way beyond that, whereby some people want to just discredit others and continue to do this on a regular basis. All I ask it think about what other damage you are causing. Opinion is out there, no need to keep repeating it.

For me personally, I am deep s**t with all of this and honestly, see no real way out other than bankruptcy. However, I have still put my money behind and backed more than one advisor and am still relying on them all to help pull me through this mess. At the time of making those decisions, I thought 'It was the right thing to do' for me and my family. Do I regret any of those decisions ? No !

HMRC are good at moving the goal posts at any point they look vulnerable and seek to divide and conquer to cause more uncertainty and stress and seems they are winning here !
What we should be doing is re-evaluating our own personal circumstances and options all the way through this, based on what information we have to hand. Unfortunately we still have to rely on the professionals and even they cannot give any guarantee's.

Therefore, make your own decisions and good luck with whatever path you take and remember, if the professionals were always right, then we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place, but it's the same professionals we are now relying on getting us out of this mess. HMRC are the enemy here, nobody else.

[Pennydroppers]

Hmmm, registered in 2009 and less than 900 posts.

So you see yourself as a scheme user's policeman. Strange you havent set up an organisation to aide the very people you have an interest in and instead appear to want to settle scores. Or may you did and dobbed in your 'clients' in the end?

Irrespective, what you are doing on here is destroying the hope of the very people you claim to be protecting by outing others. I dont suppose you really care if you drive people further and further into desparation so long as it suits your agenda.

All you andone or twoothers I could mention are doing is making it easier for HMRC to get complete capitulation from these people.

classic cult behaviour here. any serious questions towards the strategy are countered with "destroying hope". People affected by huge tax bills need a lot more than hope.

[Pennydroppers]

You are mistaken. The main fight is with HMRC, it involves more than the parties involved in that unsavoury spat which descended into a points scoring exercise. HMRC must have been rubbing their hands together reading that and a couple of other threads on here in recent days. And one of the proponents is supposedly taking the same fight to HMRC? You could have fooled me.

There are tens if not hundreds of thousands involved in this 'fight.' Many of them are on the edge of despair after years of being worn down by the HMRC behemoth and then a couple of posters like deal or nodeal and one or two others, turn up and 'debate' the finer points of both the strategy to try and defeat HMRC and effectively tell people their fight has been blown out of the water.

It isnt down to deal or no deal or one or two others to tell people their argument against HMRC is fataly damaged.

I have my own thoughts on these groups strategy. If people have real concerns about the way their advisors are acting or way they are operating, there are proper channels to go through instead of washing dirty laundry here.

If you or any others have an issue with the strategy of the group you belong to, fine, take it up with them directly. HMRC read these forums. They have used info posted in these forums against the people who are fighting or rather trying to fight them.

You are missing the point. Look at the wider implications. BG \ WTT cannot discuss strategy here, that plays straight into HMRC's hands. If people think they are taking money for nothing, speak directly with them, dont let HMRC eavesdrop on the conversation. If you cannot see that, then you are not onboard with fighting the real enemy.

can you elaborate on the "proper channels". If a scheme/cult is acting inappropriately, then a proper channel is not internal to that scheme. WTT have closed down their forum, meaning members have no place to share concerns.

[DealorNoDeal]

Oh, and BTW...

And so to the elephant in the room.

Whomever you, Rory, Keith, Anne, or I argue was the ”other potential PAYE source” (to use your own words) is absolutely irrelevant if HMRC has, as Judges Andrews and Gillett decided, an unfettered discretion to disengage the PAYE obligations on that party. The effect of that discretion is to render the employee liable and, say HMRC, to remove the PAYE credit.

If you think Saleos doesn't know his stuff, then go find out who he is in conference with.

[DealorNoDeal]

(1) BG \ WTT cannot discuss strategy here, that plays straight into HMRC's hands. (2) If people think they are taking money for nothing, speak directly with them, dont let HMRC eavesdrop on the conversation.

(1) So, WTT have to keep it all a closely guarded secret until the day of the court hearing? Then they can ambush HMRC with the "secret weapon"?

(2) Yes right, and get fobbed off with hyperbole. webberg is a master at "BS baffles brains". It was only another advisor like Saleos who was able call him out and cut through the crap.

[CockneyRed]

I agree. I almost joined BG but something didn't feel right. Maybe it was speaking to 3 different WTT people and getting 3 different answers. Maybe it was all the jawjaw, while what was needed was warwar. Maybe it was the joining fee which would be fine if there was previous victories to benefit from.

Anyway, IMO, they waited so long that there were always behind the action when there may been an opportunity to take the shot.

It is one facet where I have to acknowledge Matt Hall's efforts. He is taking real action in real courts.

THIS!

[TheDogsNads]

Joined in May 2020. First post today. Hmm...

I'm taking an interest because I'm sick of scheme users being exploited by promoters, ambulance chasers, snake oil salesmen, and outright scam merchants.

Why here on CUK? Because webberg recruited most members of BG through these forums.

In the last few weeks he's signed up a hundred or so more people from here (for a £££ fee) to resist loan repayment demands. Many of his posts in those threads felt like scaremongering to me (to drum up business?)

If WTT are not being totally straight with people, then I will not keep quiet.

Hmmm, registered in 2009 and less than 900 posts.

So you see yourself as a scheme user's policeman. Strange you havent set up an organisation to aide the very people you have an interest in and instead appear to want to settle scores. Or may you did and dobbed in your 'clients' in the end?

Irrespective, what you are doing on here is destroying the hope of the very people you claim to be protecting by outing others. I dont suppose you really care if you drive people further and further into desparation so long as it suits your agenda.

All you andone or twoothers I could mention are doing is making it easier for HMRC to get complete capitulation from these people.

[TheDogsNads]

Is there a fight? The question is related to what was put Publicly on Twitter, no guts need to be spilt and, if I am not mistaken, Twitter is also Public!
There have been many questions around WTT/BG of late, regardless of whether the users are members or not, perhaps the questions people (from users themselves) have are not being answered. There is an awful lot of money passing hands and, it seems, not enough action. Have you thought about that before engaging a quite abrasive message to the OP? Furthermore, your choice of words surrounding sending to people into depths of despair?? Really?? We are already here and have been for some time! This has been hanging over us for years.....

You are mistaken. The main fight is with HMRC, it involves more than the parties involved in that unsavoury spat which descended into a points scoring exercise. HMRC must have been rubbing their hands together reading that and a couple of other threads on here in recent days. And one of the proponents is supposedly taking the same fight to HMRC? You could have fooled me.

There are tens if not hundreds of thousands involved in this 'fight.' Many of them are on the edge of despair after years of being worn down by the HMRC behemoth and then a couple of posters like deal or nodeal and one or two others, turn up and 'debate' the finer points of both the strategy to try and defeat HMRC and effectively tell people their fight has been blown out of the water.

It isnt down to deal or no deal or one or two others to tell people their argument against HMRC is fataly damaged.

I have my own thoughts on these groups strategy. If people have real concerns about the way their advisors are acting or way they are operating, there are proper channels to go through instead of washing dirty laundry here.

If you or any others have an issue with the strategy of the group you belong to, fine, take it up with them directly. HMRC read these forums. They have used info posted in these forums against the people who are fighting or rather trying to fight them.

You are missing the point. Look at the wider implications. BG \ WTT cannot discuss strategy here, that plays straight into HMRC's hands. If people think they are taking money for nothing, speak directly with them, dont let HMRC eavesdrop on the conversation. If you cannot see that, then you are not onboard with fighting the real enemy.

[dammit chloe]

Joined in May 2020. First post today. Hmm...

I'm taking an interest because I'm sick of scheme users being exploited by promoters, ambulance chasers, snake oil salesmen, and outright scam merchants.

Why here on CUK? Because webberg recruited most members of BG through these forums.

In the last few weeks he's signed up a hundred or so more people from here (for a £££ fee) to resist loan repayment demands. Many of his posts in those threads felt like scaremongering to me (to drum up business?)

If WTT are not being totally straight with people, then I will not keep quiet.

I agree. I almost joined BG but something didn't feel right. Maybe it was speaking to 3 different WTT people and getting 3 different answers. Maybe it was all the jawjaw, while what was needed was warwar. Maybe it was the joining fee which would be fine if there was previous victories to benefit from.

Anyway, IMO, they waited so long that there were always behind the action when there may been an opportunity to take the shot.

It is one facet where I have to acknowledge Matt Hall's efforts. He is taking real action in real courts.

[DealorNoDeal]

Id be grateful of the mods or admin allowing this post as I feel it is very important.

If you, dealornodeal, aren't a member of either group, why do you seem intent on wanting them to spill their guts on a forum HMRC is known to read just to satisfy your curiosity? You appear to enjoy encouraging people to disclose information that potentially harms their fight in the courts. I wonder why that is?

If you are a member of either group, dont you think you should stop looking for tittle tattle that you can regurgitate and send people into the depths of despair?

You really should butt out of this fight or at least learn no to dicuss this stuff on a forum HMRC reads.

Joined in May 2020. First post today. Hmm...

I'm taking an interest because I'm sick of scheme users being exploited by promoters, ambulance chasers, snake oil salesmen, and outright scam merchants.

Why here on CUK? Because webberg recruited most members of BG through these forums.

In the last few weeks he's signed up a hundred or so more people from here (for a £££ fee) to resist loan repayment demands. Many of his posts in those threads felt like scaremongering to me (to drum up business?)

If WTT are not being totally straight with people, then I will not keep quiet.