Reply to: Help with dividends (VERY WORRIED)

[webberg]

I pay for an accountancy company CompleteAccounting and they should have told me as I send them the company statements every month... They never said anything...

You have identified a crucial point there.

Unfortunately it's one that is not quite as black and white as it may seem.

What - exactly - did you ask your accountant to do? What did the terms of engagement say? Were they to prepare your financial statements and tax returns but not anything else?

The above is by far the most common type of arrangement because it's the cheapest for all parties. You are not paying for the better minds and the accounting firm is not recruiting and paying for them.

By signing the agreement, all sides accept that the service provided is the barest minimum and for 99% of the time that suits all sides.

You then move on.

If the accountants became aware that a scheme was being investigated, should they have mentioned that fact to all known users? Should they have mentioned this to new users?

Here, we're drifting into subjective matters. By the letter of the terms of engagement, the accountant has no duty toward you to do this. You have no action against them if they do not.

I would have hoped however that any reasonably competent accountant who regards undertaking their professional duties with any pride would have said something. I'm well aware that many did not - for a variety of reasons - and I have got myself into hot water for saying so.

Ultimately however, this is a two way street and before you blame the accountants for all problems, look at what you signed up for.

[Paralytic]

I pay for an accountancy company CompleteAccounting and they should have told me as I send them the company statements every month... They never said anything...

Are these accountants in any way linked to BSCL? How did you select them?

[Tavy]

You have a right to be worried - sounds like a tax avoidance scheme to me.

Staggered that as a first time contractor you didn't investigate this fully or speak to an accountant.

Good luck!

I pay for an accountancy company CompleteAccounting and they should have told me as I send them the company statements every month... They never said anything...

[DealorNoDeal]

Imagine if the Police/CPS acted like HMRC.

If they became aware of a growing behaviour, that ought to be prohibited, and did nowt about it for years, while it spiraled out of control, they'd be crucified.

The problem with HMRC is that they've got too used to being bailed out by the Government. "It doesn't matter if we sit on our useless arses, doing nothing for years on end, because we can always get the Government to give us another helping of retrospection."

It beggars belief that a tax authority should need a new law, to tackle something they were fully aware of, which happened 20 years ago. Bonkers.

[Dmac]

Help with dividends (VERY WORRIED)

OK so In 2008 I lost my perm job in the credit crunch. In Nov my first child was born. Dad for the first time.

By May I was desperate and was offered a job but only contract. Something I had never been, always employed PAYE, but my little baby needed milk.

I asked someone who I trust implicitly and they said "be careful of IR35" and recommended use of an Umbrella.

3 days into my new job I call the Recruitment agency. A very well respected one and said I don't want to set up Ltd and want to go with an Umbrella and can you recommend. They sent me 3 links and said one was used by lots of his contractors. I'll withhold the name they recommended for now

Roll forward ... 10 years hear I am. I have been back PAYE thankfully for 4 years but only as soon as I could get an offer. I am not the youngest so securing a PAYE job was very difficult. I am now facing the Freight Train that is HMRC who said sweet FA for six years. Then they won the Rangers case and all hell broke loose. Why would I ever understand how the Rangers case could affect me so badly and why would I be looking at SPOTLIGHT even if I did understand it and relate back to my Umbrella. I am NOT an EFFING TAX specialist. I trusted people and more fool me maybe. The sums seemed right. I did not ask about the bit that was being deducted and who got what share. I lost 27%. Seemed about right

My whole issue is for 20 odd years I have been honest. Why could not have HMRC warned me a lot sooner than 5 or 6 years down the line.

I wont give up. Never will. I have kept every letter. All their enquiries everything. even when according to law they were out of time. I've been polite helpful and honest to HMRC all the time even when I could see they could not even calculate the simple tax amount. Yet I am treated like some gold digging scumbag.

This.

It's all very well those being smug after the event (and very well done, you) - but many went with these solutions for perfectly legitimate reasons. To those * clever* enough to avoid this tulipstorm, rather than pat yourselves warmly on the back, instead offer advice and support to those caught up in it.

There but for the grace of god ....

[lowpaidworker]

Exactly what happened to me! I was on a team where all contractors were using it - and loads in neighbouring teams too. HMRC had not challenged the scheme though aware of it for 5 years.

The 27th worst mistake of my life. The other 26 were marriages.....

OK so In 2008 I lost my perm job in the credit crunch. In Nov my first child was born. Dad for the first time.

By May I was desperate and was offered a job but only contract. Something I had never been, always employed PAYE, but my little baby needed milk.

I asked someone who I trust implicitly and they said "be careful of IR35" and recommended use of an Umbrella.

3 days into my new job I call the Recruitment agency. A very well respected one and said I don't want to set up Ltd and want to go with an Umbrella and can you recommend. They sent me 3 links and said one was used by lots of his contractors. I'll withhold the name they recommended for now

Roll forward ... 10 years hear I am. I have been back PAYE thankfully for 4 years but only as soon as I could get an offer. I am not the youngest so securing a PAYE job was very difficult. I am now facing the Freight Train that is HMRC who said sweet FA for six years. Then they won the Rangers case and all hell broke loose. Why would I ever understand how the Rangers case could affect me so badly and why would I be looking at SPOTLIGHT even if I did understand it and relate back to my Umbrella. I am NOT an EFFING TAX specialist. I trusted people and more fool me maybe. The sums seemed right. I did not ask about the bit that was being deducted and who got what share. I lost 27%. Seemed about right

My whole issue is for 20 odd years I have been honest. Why could not have HMRC warned me a lot sooner than 5 or 6 years down the line.

I wont give up. Never will. I have kept every letter. All their enquiries everything. even when according to law they were out of time. I've been polite helpful and honest to HMRC all the time even when I could see they could not even calculate the simple tax amount. Yet I am treated like some gold digging scumbag.

[BrilloPad]

I bet most people who signed up for these schemes heard about them through word of mouth recommendation from other contractors.

It's easy to gain a false sense of security if lots of other people are doing it.

Exactly what happened to me! I was on a team where all contractors were using it - and loads in neighbouring teams too. HMRC had not challenged the scheme though aware of it for 5 years.

The 27th worst mistake of my life. The other 26 were marriages.....

[ladymuck]

I didn't know any contractors when I fell into this wayward life so I signed up with an umbrella for my first three months while I worked it all out. Granted it was an umbrella recommended by the agency, but it did me well enough at the time.

[DealorNoDeal]

I bet most people who signed up for these schemes heard about them through word of mouth recommendation from other contractors.

It's easy to gain a false sense of security if lots of other people are doing it.

[dammit chloe]

Contracting was a planned option for me, lurked on here for a while and as the others genned up ....

I'm sure there are many that do plan just not something that I have commonly heard of. There again I have no real interest in it either. Permie suited me better and generally provided much more interesting work for me.

[Major Hassle]

That I suspect is highly unusual. I was an accidental contractor after being laid off in the dotcom bust. I had no interest before then and would have preferred another permie role but hard to get.

Contracting was a planned option for me, lurked on here for a while and as the others genned up ....

[dammit chloe]

Ditto, before I went contracting I was on here for a few years. Absorbed lots of info which made the leap easy and was aware of the scams/pitfalls.

That I suspect is highly unusual. I was an accidental contractor after being laid off in the dotcom bust. I had no interest before then and would have preferred another permie role but hard to get.

[adubya]

While I am not surprised a first timer would fall for this I do find it mind boggling they do...

I realised when I went contracting I was entering a new world where I wouldn’t have protections and I was going to have to learn a whole new world. One of the first things I did was sign up here to talk to people before making the final plung. It’s only then I discovered things like IR35 and how dividends work etc.

It really is on yourself to do the research. It’s a more than fool hardy to do what the OP has done.

Ditto, before I went contracting I was on here for a few years. Absorbed lots of info which made the leap easy and was aware of the scams/pitfalls.

[Paralytic]

While I am not surprised a first timer would fall for this I do find it mind boggling they do...

I realised when I went contracting I was entering a new world where I wouldn’t have protections and I was going to have to learn a whole new world. One of the first things I did was sign up here to talk to people before making the final plung. It’s only then I discovered things like IR35 and how dividends work etc.

It really is on yourself to do the research. It’s a more than fool hardy to do what the OP has done.

Agree 100%, this is exactly what I did. But, lets be honest, a significant number of contractors are just employees who wanted more cash in their hand and had no interest in learning how to run their own company, so would just accept advice from someone who sounded like they knew what they were talking about (and who told them what they wanted to hear with regards to £££s in their pockets).

[dx4100]

While I am not surprised a first timer would fall for this I do find it mind boggling they do...

I realised when I went contracting I was entering a new world where I wouldn’t have protections and I was going to have to learn a whole new world. One of the first things I did was sign up here to talk to people before making the final plung. It’s only then I discovered things like IR35 and how dividends work etc.

It really is on yourself to do the research. It’s a more than fool hardy to do what the OP has done.