Reply to: APN's : Nets £4bn

[BrilloPad]

The only people who'll still be avoid tax are going to be super wealthy getting unique advice, as the nature intended - HMRC can live with that.

Typical Russian. Its fine to have huge equality.

[AtW]

be careful what you wish for

It's not what I wish for, this is a logical inevitability, only question is when, most certainly sooner rather than later

“It isn’t a matter of whether [the private sector extension] will be implemented, the question is when,” said Geoff Fawcett, director at recruitment company Hays"

[ChimpMaster]

They are already doing it by beefing up IR35, public sector for now but it will certainly move to private sector soon.

IR35 could be extended into private sector ‘as early as spring 2018’ - People Management Magazine Online

be careful what you wish for

[AtW]

"Anything out of the ordinary" - it may be that using a ltd co to avoid tax becomes retrospectively extraordinary in due course

They are already doing it by beefing up IR35, public sector for now but it will certainly move to private sector soon.

[QCApproved]

I think the architects of IR35 thought it was an "out of the ordinary" state of affairs notwithstanding IR35 is unenforceable.

[BrilloPad]

"Anything out of the ordinary" - it may be that using a ltd co to avoid tax becomes retrospectively extraordinary in due course

This is guaranteed at some point. And it will be retrospective back to 1997.

[QCApproved]

"Anything out of the ordinary" - it may be that using a ltd co to avoid tax becomes retrospectively extraordinary in due course

[AtW]

And here you have, my friend, underlined the entire paradox of the situation HMRC have created for themselves.

There is no paradox.

HMRC got it good now: DOTAS means APN

Anybody who does anything out of ordinary who has not registered under DOTAS will be aggressively challenged to get massive fines.

This will kill mass scale tax avoidance.

The only people who'll still be avoid tax are going to be super wealthy getting unique advice, as the nature intended - HMRC can live with that.

[DotasScandal]

"HMRC is stemming supply and demand for tax avoidance schemes – the number of new schemes notified in 2015-16 under the Disclosure of Tax Avoidance Schemes regime fell by 99% on 2005-06, from 600 to 7."

And here you have, my friend, underlined the entire paradox of the situation HMRC have created for themselves.
Without even going into the topic that the 4 Bn they boast about are not "tax collected" but potentially refundable payments on account, their problem is that they have promised this money to the Treasury, and the Treasury will expect (reasonably or not) the APN money to keep flowing for years to come.
That's not gonna happen, the above quote makes it pretty clear why.

(Hence the desperate for them to find new avenues - naturally (what else?) through ever more controversial and retrospective legislation. Cf. "2019 charge")

[eek]

If a scheme is notified then all the users will get slapped with APNs, so it's hardly surprising that disclosure has all but dried up.

APNs rendered DoTAS obsolete.

DOTAS ensured there was an incentive for scheme creators to register their scheme
APN removed that incentive and replaced it with an incentive to not disclose the scheme unless disclosure was unavoidable.

[stonehenge]

"HMRC is stemming supply and demand for tax avoidance schemes – the number of new schemes notified in 2015-16 under the Disclosure of Tax Avoidance Schemes regime fell by 99% on 2005-06, from 600 to 7."

If a scheme is notified then all the users will get slapped with APNs, so it's hardly surprising that disclosure has all but dried up.

APNs rendered DoTAS obsolete.

[AtW]

Its according to the legal opinion

Well, next obvious step for HMRC would be to increase penalties for non-disclosure, perhaps even criminalise it - that would close the loop finally, even though some leaks would always remain.

[BrilloPad]

Oh really, since when and what kind of schemes are those?

Its according to the legal opinion. To me, it would be a huge red flag.

For the record, I support prospective APNs. Just not retrospective.

[AtW]

The problem with that argument is that most schemes no longer need to be disclosed and therefore are no longer being reported to HMRC on creation...

Oh really, since when and what kind of schemes are those?

[eek]

"HMRC is stemming supply and demand for tax avoidance schemes – the number of new schemes notified in 2015-16 under the Disclosure of Tax Avoidance Schemes regime fell by 99% on 2005-06, from 600 to 7."

The problem with that argument is that most schemes no longer need to be disclosed and therefore are no longer being reported to HMRC on creation...