Reply to: The biggest group of all?

[cojak]

I'm not advocating Big Group in this thread, I'm not suggesting we join together to form yet another settlement group of any kind.

The vast majority of our groups were formed when tax law was tax law, there was no spirit, avoidance and evasion were distinct and different and HMRC still abided by their own time limits.

Wind forward a few years and the world has changed.

We all know it's because HMRC don't know their A from their E and played a massive part in creating a cesspool of inadequacy that they're desperately trying to cover up.

So why not join all our collective selves together to root out the policy makers that allowed this to happen bring them to account?

Starting with the twat that wrote "This measure is not expected to have a material impact on family formation, stability or breakdown."

Really?

Do you have any idea how long this all has been going on? Do you think that no-one has thought of this before?

Try googling BN66, then 'No to Retrospective Tax' and then try NTRT.

Valiant people worked for years on this.

Have a look at this thread http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...al-review.html and this one http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ement-day.html and this one - http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...al-beyond.html

And then take a look at this one

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ct-2008-a.html

Settle down for a long read....

...and then good luck with retreading that path.

[webberg]

Big Group exists to analyse and provide alternative settlement strategies for all contractor schemes, loan based or otherwise.

Almost all schemes from 2002 onwards have loans in their structure somewhere and even most of the allegedly self employed variants included them.

Our "Option 1" is looking at the analysis applied to those loans.

We do not have any affiliation with any scheme promoter, past or present.

As such we approach every scheme with only the interests of our clients in mind.

We are looking for holistic solutions and not just a tax settlement.

We do not investigate whether the original promoters and purveyors of schemes might be liable for reparations. Whilst our forums are quite active in this regard, this is not our function.

Be warned however that Big Group will be temporarily closed from 7th January whilst we execute phase 1 of option 1.

[allbutbankrupt]

BG is the only way forward on loan schemes.

Why?

[eek]

As someone posted on the IPSE forums recently (granted regarding ir35 rather than schemes), the damage is usually done in the first communications regarding the enquiry.

In most cases with these schemes the damage was done before you even joined them. Big group is really the only option

[BrilloPad]

BG is the only way forward on loan schemes.

[BattleCry]

I'm not advocating Big Group in this thread, I'm not suggesting we join together to form yet another settlement group of any kind.

The vast majority of our groups were formed when tax law was tax law, there was no spirit, avoidance and evasion were distinct and different and HMRC still abided by their own time limits.

Wind forward a few years and the world has changed.

We all know it's because HMRC don't know their A from their E and played a massive part in creating a cesspool of inadequacy that they're desperately trying to cover up.

So why not join all our collective selves together to root out the policy makers that allowed this to happen bring them to account?

Starting with the twat that wrote "This measure is not expected to have a material impact on family formation, stability or breakdown."

As I understand it (and I could be mistaken) Big group includes a broad church.

There are those who want to settle all this as soon as possible on the best terms they can leverage (I don't think fairness comes into it, but maybe it will give some peace of mind, closure and a fresh start)

There are those that cannot afford to / cannot swallow the unfair settlement routes currently on offer and they will fight this as a group.

I should add that I have not yet seen what the big group option 1 settlement route amounts to (I will join so that I can weigh the fairness of it). Whatever decision I come to, I want to have my eyes open to all options available. I'm inclined to fight even if it's from a beach abroad.

I don't share the view that action is too late... The new outstanding loans charge has not become law yet. Surely Any legal challenge/judicial review must come after this.

The new laws represent an unprecedented move from HMRC. A breach of Constitutional rights, Civil liberties etc that take us deep into uncharted territory. I fully expect a political and legal challenge.

But I don't think anyone can predict the shape or size of this challenge let alone the outcome at this moment.

[squirrel]

I don't think the thread title helps...

I'm not advocating Big Group in this thread, I'm not suggesting we join together to form yet another settlement group of any kind.

The vast majority of our groups were formed when tax law was tax law, there was no spirit, avoidance and evasion were distinct and different and HMRC still abided by their own time limits.

Wind forward a few years and the world has changed.

We all know it's because HMRC don't know their A from their E and played a massive part in creating a cesspool of inadequacy that they're desperately trying to cover up.

So why not join all our collective selves together to root out the policy makers that allowed this to happen bring them to account?

Starting with the twat that wrote "This measure is not expected to have a material impact on family formation, stability or breakdown."

[BattleCry]

Yup I agree- and Big Group approach is about Settlement, not trying to defend whatever arrangements were used.

I will probably join big group.

I have not decided yet what I'll be doing. Fair settlement - you mean a settlement similar to Amazon and Google With HMRC admitting there own culpability?

Other options = stay and fight or leave the UK.

[jbryce]

Big Group definitely is not the next iteration of the original scheme creators. Big Group has no link the the scheme creators. The members are from different groups and the advise given by Big Group has definitely been the best so far and the most cost effective.

Yup I agree- and Big Group approach is about Settlement, not trying to defend whatever arrangements were used.

[Jes1]

To be blunt it's irrelevant - a lot of the groups are simply the next iteration of the original scheme creator or the company the scheme creator has sold the support hassle to.

The only thing you can do here is decided whether to Continue with whatever the scheme is trying to do or join someone trying to negotiate a different settlement by using a different approach. All HMRC want is the money they believe is due to them. Joining a bigger group isn't going to make any difference to HMRC's approach. You just need to pick the group you believe will provide the best outcome for yourself.

Big Group definitely is not the next iteration of the original scheme creators. Big Group has no link the the scheme creators. The members are from different groups and the advise given by Big Group has definitely been the best so far and the most cost effective.

[DotasScandal]

Have to say I disagree there. I'm not looking to jump ship for settlement, I've happily thrown my eggs in the Big Group basket for that. Maybe no one is interested and everyone wants to just put all this behind them, but there might be others out there who aren't happy with the way this has all panned out and would be prepared to get together to try and do something, anything.

Maybe there won't be anyone and I have no issues if it's just me, but it's worth a try.

Not just you.
Everyone's circumstances are different. But sadly, what few acknowledge is that the nexus of HMRC's strategy is that they win by default cause we're too broke to fund a defence - and counter-attack.
Big Group exists because Big membership = Big Money. And in the UK, money talks and everything else walks.

[squirrel]

You're problem here is that you are trying to herd cats and you are x years too late....

It's never too late apparently, ask HMRC. I suppose in their case though even if it is too late then they just make a new law and hey presto, it isn't too late.

The cats thing I get though, let's see if this thread develops or not...

[eek]

Have to say I disagree there. I'm not looking to jump ship for settlement, I've happily thrown my eggs in the Big Group basket for that. Maybe no one is interested and everyone wants to just put all this behind them, but there might be others out there who aren't happy with the way this has all panned out and would be prepared to get together to try and do something, anything.

Maybe there won't be anyone and I have no issues if it's just me, but it's worth a try.

Your problem here is that you are trying to herd cats and you are x years too late....

[squirrel]

Have to say I disagree there. I'm not looking to jump ship for settlement, I've happily thrown my eggs in the Big Group basket for that. Maybe no one is interested and everyone wants to just put all this behind them, but there might be others out there who aren't happy with the way this has all panned out and would be prepared to get together to try and do something, anything.

Maybe there won't be anyone and I have no issues if it's just me, but it's worth a try.

[eek]

To be blunt it's irrelevant - a lot of the groups are simply the next iteration of the original scheme creator or the company the scheme creator has sold the support hassle to.

The only thing you can do here is decided whether to Continue with whatever the scheme is trying to do or join someone trying to negotiate a different settlement by using a different approach. All HMRC want is the money they believe is due to them. Joining a bigger group isn't going to make any difference to HMRC's approach. You just need to pick the group you believe will provide the best outcome for yourself.