Reply to: Opportunity to participate in an APN judicial review

[cojak]

I'm closing this thread, if you have any questions ask Saleos.

And there's always The Big Group if you want to join one.

[ScottW]

Please Note

Unfortunately, due to lack of interest, Matt has been forced to withdraw the opportunity to participate.

The JR itself is still going ahead but only for the schemes he was already representing.

Slightly confused by this.

I'm signed up with Saleos/Matt as a result of using Edge.

My understanding was that to sign up to the JR you had to have received an APN.

I haven't had one as yet.

Does that mean I no longer have the option of JR and will just have to pay the APN?

Confused.com

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Please Note

Unfortunately, due to lack of interest, Matt has been forced to withdraw the opportunity to participate.

The JR itself is still going ahead but only for the schemes he was already representing.

[webberg]

So if you pay the APN and join the JR, if the judge rules they re illegal, do you get your money back?

Yes.

But you still might be liable for a late payment penalty

[lilikins1]

So if you pay the APN and join the JR, if the judge rules they re illegal, do you get your money back?

So have just received 2 APN s and they look like a marketing letter...'About the Tax Avoidance scheme that you used' They so want that money they re bullying people into paying with cheap tactics

[lilikins1]

Lutkeg,

Hi there, the post that Webberg just put up is pretty damning : http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-...n-penalty.html if I read it correctly.

The late payment penalties apply if payment is not made in respect of an APN by the due date, irrespective of the final outcome of the matter. So in your example below, the total of £15 of penalties would remain.

When there is a JR challenge, the penalty is chargeable from the stated due date for payment of the APN.

I have not signed up for this yet, was still contemplaiting when I recieve an APN. This being the case then what is the point apart from staving off a knock on the door as the cost will just get more and more, absolute joke.

So if you pay the APN and join the JR, if the judge rules they re illegal, do you get your money back?

[fielder]

Lutkeg,

Hi there, the post that Webberg just put up is pretty damning : http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-...n-penalty.html if I read it correctly.

The late payment penalties apply if payment is not made in respect of an APN by the due date, irrespective of the final outcome of the matter. So in your example below, the total of £15 of penalties would remain.

When there is a JR challenge, the penalty is chargeable from the stated due date for payment of the APN.

I have not signed up for this yet, was still contemplaiting when I recieve an APN. This being the case then what is the point apart from staving off a knock on the door as the cost will just get more and more, absolute joke.

[lutkeg]

Edg ebt - apn

Hi Fielder,

I was with Edge, and just wondered how you got on with the JR?
I'm pretty much in the same boat as many others.

I want to first thank you for providing what I feel is lifeline for a lot of people.

Please may I ask for your opinions to what course of action would be best suited?

While I believe HMRC will overall claim that I owe within interest circa £20000 from an Edge EBT it is my understanding from following several different threads that I left the scheme before any finance bill was introduced and nothing has been proved that I was evading tax, which I wasn't so why should I settle and admit to something I have not done. With my age, job position and where I live I don't have this kind of money floating around.

The way I see it right now my options would be:

a)Attempt to get a loan from somewhere and pay the APN, understanding that at least interest (possibly inheritance tax as well) is not included

b)Put what savings I have into the APN JR review but understand that I could be asked for more money soon. If I read the letter of engagement correctly within 4.4 'Charges and expenses' if I don't future add monies where required by consultancy and requested then I will fall to the wayside and I would where? This would at least allow me to save as much as I can to reduce a loan when I need one.

c)Sell what little stake I have in this property, work with the bank to pay back the mortgage at a cost and likely sell all my furnishing and find somewhere else to live with my Fiancee (who is on a zero hour contract) within 90 days. I appreciate there are people in a worse of position than myself i'm sure.

Thank you for your points of view, this is the best hope I have of getting any advice as I cannot afford decent lawyers for a decent amount of hours, especially when we all know I have done nothing wrong!

[DonkeyRhubarb]

So it would be delay in enforecement but we would have to pay the penalties once the final pay up day comes along?

Potentially but I understand Pinsents intend to challenge the penalties issue.

If you can pay APNs, it probably makes sense to pay them.

If you can't pay then you would get penalties anyway.

[lilikins1]

The length of time is uncertain but I would think at least 6 months.

Assuming Ingenious lose round one in the High Court, it depends on whether they appeal to the Court of Appeal.

So it would be delay in enforecement but we would have to pay the penalties once the final pay up day comes along?

[webberg]

I don't know if this is a silly question but, if HMRC never prove that I owe them money. Will i be able to sue them for all this money they are making me spend fighting my corner?

Not sue them but you could go to their Ombudsman who may award costs or compensation.

bear in mind that HMRC makes millions of mistakes every year and perhaps less than 50 awards of costs.

[lilikins1]

I don't know if this is a silly question but, if HMRC never prove that I owe them money. Will i be able to sue them for all this money they are making me spend fighting my corner?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Given the people at Ingenious I think it would be a given that they will press this hard. I would expect this to go a long way but...

there is a danger that a loss at round one will permit collection of APN even if the case goes on.

Yes but there's not much point anyone worrying about imponderables.

If someone joins a JR to buy time then they just have to hope it buys a decent amount of time.

[webberg]

The length of time is uncertain but I would think at least 6 months.

Assuming Ingenious lose round one in the High Court, it depends on whether they appeal to the Court of Appeal.

Given the people at Ingenious I think it would be a given that they will press this hard. I would expect this to go a long way but...

there is a danger that a loss at round one will permit collection of APN even if the case goes on.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

i.e. this is £900 to get a delay in enforcement of, say, 3 - 6 months, no more than that?

The length of time is uncertain but I would think at least 6 months.

Assuming Ingenious lose round one in the High Court, it depends on whether they appeal to the Court of Appeal.