Reply to: Should the nurse be sued?

[original PM]

I do have to say that I think that the medical practices procecedures in this country seem to be stuck in the 1970's

I think the doctors and nurses are generally great people however there are too many people who see it is a gravy train with limited responsiblity.

It needs to be overhauled from top to bottom with the patients and not the consultants being the focus of all the work.

[vetran]

in which case there should be a process that firmly plants the decision in the right place.

[d000hg]

good so you have proved my point.

I'm not sure that's the case.

[psychocandy]

My Mrs is a nurse and they're constantly banging on about how they're legally responsible for their own actions. Which is fair enough - its about time that nursing as a profession was taken more seriously. They;re not just glorified ass wipers...

But the trouble is there are too many nurses out there who wont take responsibility. They prefer the old way - doctors says, nurse says yes sir. Mistake happens.

Those who do kick off are branded as troublemakers. Doctors/consultants hate it.

Also, when things do go wrong, who do you think gets the blame regardless? Hospital doesnt want to lose their top consultant but nurses are ten a penny.

In this case, depends whos fault it was. Legally nurse did the injection so its her fault - even if the doctor advised she should.

[vetran]

That may be the most sensible thing I've ever heard.

and then the doctor near the end of an exam suspects there is a more serious cause and has to book another appointment to investigate or overrun with people waiting in the corridor.

nothing wrong with waiting rooms, its the management of appointments that are the problem.

for instance booking everyone for 10am and making them wait for 3-4 hours because there are 20-30 people they decide to see ahead of you, or you turning up at 9:30 so you only wait 60 minutes.

Or people that obviously need assistance ahead of you (normally in a hospital wheelchair or gurney from the ward) having to wait 15 minutes for a nurse, instead of booking them later & together with a nurse / porter waiting.

That's hospital consultants for you.

Or spending 3 days in hospital because they haven't done the test yet, they know you are 'OK' to go home but they faff about.

I rarely get to see the doctor on time but a 10-20 minute wait is not a real problem. 3-4 hours in the hospital is taking the mick.

If they planned for a maximum wait of 15 minutes and measured it then they could have much smaller waiting rooms.

[VectraMan]

Can the Japanese car factory methods that transformed a Seattle hospital work on the NHS? - Telegraph

Next, the hospital is trying to abolish waiting rooms. “If someone’s made an appointment months ago, shouldn’t we be ready for them when they arrive?” Dr Otero says. “Architects will build you a big waiting room with fountains but we can turn that into extra exam rooms.”

That may be the most sensible thing I've ever heard.

[vetran]

good so you have proved my point.

it like every other medicine should be handled with extreme care.

[speling bee]

apparently not. The experts say don't be so silly. We have to believe them without question because they are the experts!

Where did you read that?

MMR vaccine side effects - Vaccinations - NHS Choices

Rare side effects of the MMR vaccine

Bruise-like spots

In rare cases, a child may get a small rash of bruise-like spots about two weeks after having the MMR vaccine. This side effect is linked to the rubella vaccine and is known as idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP).
It's been estimated that ITP develops in one in every 24,000 doses of the MMR vaccine given. There is a greater risk of developing ITP from measles or rubella infection than there is from having the vaccine. ITP usually gets better without treatment but, as with any rash, you should seek advice from your GP as soon as possible.
Seizures (fits)

There is a small chance of seizures (fits) occurring six to 11 days after having the MMR vaccine. It sounds alarming, but it's rare, and only happens in only about one in every 1,000 doses. In fact MMR-related seizures are less frequent than seizures that occur as a direct result of a measles infection.
Allergic reaction

In extremely rare cases, a child can have a severe allergic reaction (known medically as anaphylaxis) immediately after having the MMR vaccine. Again it's an alarming prospect, but if the child is treated quickly, they make a full recovery. Medical staff who give vaccines are trained to deal with allergic reactions.

[vetran]

Is the MMR vaccine potentially lethal?

apparently not. The experts say don't be so silly. We have to believe them without question because they are the experts!

[d000hg]

If you think people should handle potentially lethal drugs without a procedure you are the Naive one.

Is the MMR vaccine potentially lethal?

[MaryPoppins]

I've changed my mind - SUE.

I like your forthright nature - MARY.

[BrilloPad]

Can the Japanese car factory methods that transformed a Seattle hospital work on the NHS? - Telegraph

At Virginia Mason Hospital in Seattle honesty is far from unusual. A decade ago the hospital adopted a revolutionary approach that encourages all its 5,600 staff to report problems without fear of repercussions.

On a visit to the hospital in March, Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, called it “inspirational” and one of the safest hospitals in the world. He announced plans to have the NHS sign up “heart and soul” to a similar culture of honesty and whistle-blowing to raise safety standards. In the wake of the Mid Staffordshire scandal, in which hundreds of patients may have died needlessly, Mr Hunt wants doctors and nurses to “say sorry” for mistakes, and hospitals that fail to be open about errors will be named and shamed.

[speling bee]

which is why such routine tasks as vaccines should have strict procedures.

Tick box

Age of child > 12 months.

write serial / batch no of drug in following box - MMR...........

done.


If you think people should handle potentially lethal drugs without a procedure you are the Naive one.

having spent 20 years in the electrical industry you know its important to double check everything.

The weird thing about this story is that vaccination within the normal child health schedule is one of the most variation free protocol driven therapies in healthcare. I would think this is a professional competency issue rather than a systemic failure, but perhaps it will all come out.

Drug errors are common and probably inevitable, although electronic prescribing and medication administration records should reduce them significantly. Double checking went out of fashion as it was believed that individual nurses would rely on the other nurse to get it right and be less careful than if single checking (although it tended to remianfor high risk meds - work that one out), but there's an interesting systematic review suggesting that independent double checking is effective: https://www.ismp.org/Newsletters/acu...cle.aspx?id=51

[BrilloPad]

Mistakes do happen. I remember hearing about the Navy getting concerned that torpedos fired could hit their own ships. So software was added telling torpedos to self destruct if turned 90 degrees. To test this, a ship left port, armed some torpedos, fired one, told it to turn 90 degrees then self destruct. It worked.

Then the ship turned 90 degrees to return to port. The resultant explosion lost a naval rating his life.

The software then was modified to "if fired" and "if turned 90 degrees".

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We all mistakes - most of us are lucky that our errors have very few knock on effects. The nurse is probably alot more qualified now than most other nurses. Good the case gets publicity to warn others.

A professional learns by their mistakes. An expert learns from the mistakes of others.

And maybe the nurse had been checking health and safety requirements checklist beforehand which distracted her? Sometimes H&S checklists distract one from the important things.

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Anyway the question is should the nurse be sued. The answer is clearly no - no harm was done.

[suityou01]

EO, have you listened to yourself lately? Just because you have more wrinkles doesn't mean you are always right.

Stop being super silly arse it doesn't suit you.