Reply to: Is IR35 dead any more?

[ASB]

The other insurances that cover you for back tax and penalties are actually a little bit of a sales exercise, since they won't offer it to you if they don't think you are outside IR35 so there is unlikely to be any back tax

Quite. But an interesting strategy might be to submit the application, find you are acceptable based on the review and then not proceed....

[Diestl]

So worse case scenario I claim outside Ir35 on all contracts for the next 10 years, if I get investigated years down the line, it will be based on one contract? So if they have all been 3-6 monthers and if the HMRC is successful then I only have to pay back around 1k back tax and continue as before?

[malvolio]

Aporchryphal, but possible: if you were going to chase someone with a dodgy piece of legislation and a very great uncertainty of success, would you choose the one with the education and backing to fight back, or the one who knows nothing...?

To be brutally honest, IR35 only survives because non-PCG-educated morons insist on paying it unnecessarily, or refusing to use umbrellas if they are genuinely caught. If the income was as low as it should be, making it uneconomic to collect, it would probably get quietly dropped

[Diestl]

I've picked up on the forum that having the PCG insurance would put a potential HMRC investigator off investigating?

[malvolio]

The PCG insurance doesn't cover your for IR35, in covers you for the £10-15k cost of the representation you will need if you are being investigated. It is not conditional on anything other than being a member and covers all your contracts. Other companies offer similar representation costs cover at roughly similar prices, but some of them want to review your contract first, which is not unreasonable, and some of them are on a per contract basis (which implies that you will need to have multiple policies for 6 years per contract but don't quote me on that, I've never really looked).

The other insurances that cover you for back tax and penalties are actually a little bit of a sales exercise, since they won't offer it to you if they don't think you are outside IR35 so there is unlikely to be any back tax, and if there's no back tax there won't be any penalties; nor will there be penalties if you have made an efort to ascertain your status, such as by having the contract reviewed. So what are they offering that PCG doesn't already do for free and others do rather more cheaply, you might ask. Good question...

[Diestl]

If someone was to do a Friday to Monday and get a very Ir35 avoiding contract and joined PCG and got the insurance, would you say they were covered from being bent over by the HMRC?

[Mailman]

Am I allowed to? I got into trouble last time. Oh, all right then.

Ah, thought you were talking about the PCG morons!

Mailman

[BoredBloke]

That is one of the main things I don't like about IR35. They initially used this line of spin to announce that it was partially for employment protection. If that were the case, the financial penalty for forcing employees into a ltd company would fall on the clients. It doesn't. Instead the 'employee' loses any employment protection and gets a hefty tax bill to boot.

[VectraMan]

"Tax motivated incorporation is also concerning because operating through a corporate structure can deprive workers (many unwittingly) of their statutory employment rights. "

Anyone feeling unwittingly deprived of employment rights?

[Lockhouse]

I hate to say I told you so.....Oh alright then....

[Pondlife]

Thanks PL, I know. I forgot that the PCG has private forums.

Apparently all is now forgiven?*

*Note: the above are my personal comments only and do not reflect the opinions of anyone else including but not limited to organisations that I may be a member of. Phew that was close

[wendigo100]

You can provide a link that people may or may not be able to view based on their subscriptions/membership etc. You can't 'cut and paste' because it infringes copyright.

Thanks PL, I know. I forgot that the PCG has private forums.

[Pondlife]

Am I allowed to? I got into trouble last time. Oh, all right then.

You can provide a link that people may or may not be able to view based on their subscriptions/membership etc. You can't 'cut and paste' because it infringes copyright.

[wendigo100]

Link?

Am I allowed to? I got into trouble last time. Oh, all right then.

[DimPrawn]

http://www.shout99.com/contractors/s...le.pl?id=39485

I you want a good reason to vote Labour, here it is, their viewpoint on small businesses.

A Treasury spokesman said: "The Government has maintained a consistent policy of supporting business and enterprise.

"It has provided a tax regime that has incentives to encourage individuals to invest for their own future and for the prosperity of Britain and incentives to encourage businesses to
expand and grow. The Government is concerned that individuals and businesses have been encouraged to take advantage of these incentives and use them to reduce their tax and NICs liabilities through 'tax motivated incorporation'.


"Tax motivated incorporation is also concerning because operating through a corporate structure can deprive workers (many unwittingly) of their statutory employment rights. The Government has introduced a number of measures to address tax motivated incorporation while maintaining incentives for growth, investment and enterprise. But the 'incorporation industry' continues to evolve and come up with new schemes to minimise tax and NICs liabilities. The Government is committed to ensuring that all individuals and businesses pay their fair share of tax and NICs, regardless of their
legal form.
"HMRC continues to address compliance issues arising from the Intermediaries legislation.

"HMRC uses compliance resources to achieve maximum effectiveness, and has increased efficiency by getting more value from the resources deployed, and taking a risk-based approach."