Made in china or made in Germany

[darmstadt]

There is the perception that 'high / quality sensitive end of a market' is niche and non-profitable opposed to mass cheap... why is that? Apple have shown high quality high value made in china products sell.

I love this store, Manufactum - Es gibt sie noch, die guten Dinge. there's one in the town centre here in Munich. You'll never find a store like this in the UK, never ever. Apart from the high quality goods on offer and yes pricey, everything you touch reads on it 'Made in Germany'. It's always crowded.

I got this notepad from there the other day. Yes a tad pricey but it oozes quality and looks good.

You did see this at the bottom of the page:

Manufactum Ltd. · P.O. Box 45 · BEDFORD, MK40 2WH

Actually that was on their British website They're actually part of a much larger group: Otto, who used to be (still are but its not the largest part of the business) a catalogue company (think Littlewoods.) They own companies like Bonprix (oooh, nice clothes, not!), Frankonia (for your Dirndl, Lederhosen and hunting gear) and Neckarmann along with banks and insurance. In the UK they own Freemans Grattan Holdings, catalogues again! The stuff at Manufactum is okay although their clothing looks like its aimed at middle aged men. Have a look at Nennmann, I use them from time to time

[doodab]

For many years the Germany have been the most culpable country for rebadging Chinese products to mislead the buyer that they are made in Germany.

This is at least partially true. Behringer music products for example are well known to be cheap chinese tulipe that don't last.

[Paddy]

For many years the Germany have been the most culpable country for rebadging Chinese products to mislead the buyer that they are made in Germany.

[doodab]

There is the perception that 'high / quality sensitive end of a market' is niche and non-profitable opposed to mass cheap... why is that? Apple have shown high quality high value made in china products sell.

I think there is that perception in the UK because the majority of people tend to shop on price or look for a bargain, so the higher end of a market is something of a niche in terms of number of potential customers. That doesn't mean it isn't profitable though, and in fact a lot of world leading British manufacturing seems to target that niche.

I love this store, Manufactum - Es gibt sie noch, die guten Dinge. there's one in the town centre here in Munich. You'll never find a store like this in the UK, never ever. Apart from the high quality goods on offer and yes pricey, everything you touch reads on it 'Made in Germany'. It's always crowded.

I got this notepad from there the other day. Yes a tad pricey but it oozes quality and looks good.

I used to browse around it occasionally. It's OK, I was never tempted to buy anything as it seemed to be mostly designer stylised versions of products I could find better versions of elsewhere. A bit like the Conrad shop. What I mean by better here is that I'm not particularly design led and I tend to go for a different slightly sort of quality, probably best described as buying "professional grade tools". I guess I like the functional look.

You are right though, a much larger proportion of the stuff in German shops is home made than in the UK. White goods, household tools, stationary, furniture etc were generally 100% German. There are exceptions, of course where the leading brands happen to be foreign, such us cameras and consumer electronics, and one odd exception I noticed was kitchen knives where, although they were mostly German, the better stores would also stock expensive Japanese ones. It was a sort of tacit acknowledgement that in this one small pocket of human endeavor Germans didn't necessarily make the best you could buy.

The retail experience in Germany was generally of far higher quality than in the UK IMO. I used to enjoy browsing the likes of Kustermann, the stationary store opposite (I forget the exact name, Kurt Billlinger maybe?), Hieber Lindberg and Sauter Photo & Video (though there are a lot of good camera shops in Munich), the outdoor/sports shops, and Conrad for tools and suchlike. I found the shops in Cologne excellent when I visited as well. One of the things I did when I left was buy myself a decent set of common household tools (screwdrivers, spanners, socket set etc) to replace the Stanley / B&Q grade stuff you get in the UK that I already had. It sounds bizarre but I get a satisfaction from those every time I use them that I never got from using inferior tools. I am addicted to Stabilo point 88 fineliners as well

[scooterscot]

The big difference I would say is that the Germans, much like the Japanese and the Brits, tend to target the high / quality sensitive end of a market over the low / price sensitive end and therefore simply don't manufacture much in the way of cheap tat whereas the Chinese are happy to target those customers.

There is the perception that 'high / quality sensitive end of a market' is niche and non-profitable opposed to mass cheap... why is that? Apple have shown high quality high value made in china products sell.

I love this store, Manufactum - Es gibt sie noch, die guten Dinge. there's one in the town centre here in Munich. You'll never find a store like this in the UK, never ever. Apart from the high quality goods on offer and yes pricey, everything you touch reads on it 'Made in Germany'. It's always crowded.

I got this notepad from there the other day. Yes a tad pricey but it oozes quality and looks good.

[doodab]

Depending on what you buy both German and Chinese made products can be excellent. The issue with many Chinese products is really a historic issue with western companies trying to produce things as cheaply as possible and therefore turning to getting it made in China by the lowest bidder without regard to quality. Most western manufacturers with a brand worth protecting and their Chinese suppliers have woken up to the quality issues and the ways in which they can damage their brand now and there are some excellent Chinese made products. Although they aren't as cheap as they were they still represent a saving and are no longer cheap tat, you do get what you pay for. My latest telescope is a good example.

I would still put the Germans ahead on absolute quality of mechanical engineering and technological achievement (many German companies are world leaders at what they do, tools and optics spring to mind), but there are some things that have literally been turned from massively expensive niche products into consumer goods by the Chinese and their investment in modern tools and factories. Radio controlled planes and helicopters are a good example of that.

The big difference I would say is that the Germans, much like the Japanese and the Brits, tend to target the high / quality sensitive end of a market over the low / price sensitive end and therefore simply don't manufacture much in the way of cheap tat whereas the Chinese are happy to target those customers.

[CheeseSlice]

would be useful if the picture wasn't broken...

WES

[TheFaQQer]

You decide:

It's difficult to tell between the two.

So I'll go with the second option.

[RetSet]

What's China's equivalent of the M5?

'Nuff Said.

[eek]

would be useful if the picture wasn't broken...

[xoggoth]

Has to be Germany. It will just last until the warranty expires before falling to bits. Better than China when it explodes and burns your house down before you finish unwrapping it.

PS That wasn't me. Jeremy Clarkson has hacked my account.

[scooterscot]

You decide: